A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Jerusalem: Gaza/Israel conflict

[Jeff Lebowski]

lol you're right on the account

I think the lone R vote was because it said rejecting israels right to exist is antisemetic which does line up though. Do you disagree?

Go read the actual text of the resolution. It is simply an affirmation of Israel's right to exist - hence the near unanimous support.

[Maximus]

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Just this part, you can be opposed and not be anti semetic

[Jeff Lebowski]

Just this part, you can be opposed and not be anti semetic

It may not make you anti-semitic, but it does make you a lunatic to draw that conclusion from the bill. Which is why only 1 person out of 414 was dumb enough to think that.

This is what is literally says:

(2) recognizes that denying Israel's right to exist is a form of antisemitism;

[Maximus]

maybe I am reading too much into it,

but isnt israels right to exist mean they were right to create a jewish state of israel?

[Jeff Lebowski]

maybe I am reading too much into it,

but isnt israels right to exist mean they were right to create a jewish state of israel?

Let's cut to the chase: Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

[Maximus]

I am asking you what you consider that to mean

clarifying questions:

Does the right of israel to exist mean the right of israel to exist as the nation state of the jewish people?

[smokymountainrain]

I am asking you what you consider that to mean

i have to wonder if you're overthinking this. all of us, including you, believe Israel has a right to exist.

[Maximus]

some people mean more than JL probably means when they say that. so I guess in this context it might be digging too much though

of course I do but not in the way it currently governs

I am probably arguing over straws, the bill is irrelevant now

I just dont think its anti semetic to be opposed to israel being created as a nation for jews

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am asking you what you consider that to mean

clarifying questions:

Does the right of israel to exist mean the right of israel to exist as the nation state of the jewish people?

Yes. Now answer my question. Straight up - yes or no.

[Maximus]

uh JL come on now..

youre making this way too broad to say being against that means one is against the right to exist

I believe israel has the right to exist as fully democratic nation that does not discriminate based on religion

So yes to your question

But not under your definition

I dont think anti zionism is anti semetism, do you equate them? just curious

[USUC]

Zionism is a misnomer in 2023. Zionism was the establishment of a Jewish state. It's done. Israel exists. To be anti zionist literally means to be against the state of isreal existing. Now I understand that the definition has been coopted to mean whatever Palestinian activists want it to mean, but that doesn't change what the word means.

[smokymountainrain]

Zionism is a misnomer in 2023. Zionism was the establishment of a Jewish state. It's done. Israel exists. To be anti zionist literally means to be against the state of isreal existing. Now I understand that the definition has been coopted to mean whatever Palestinian activists want it to mean, but that doesn't change what the word means.

showing my extreme ignorance: i have no idea to what extent Israel discriminates based on religion -

however, assuming they do openly discriminate based on religion, i sorta see maximus' point in the sense that one can both be of the opinion that Israel has the right to exist, while being against their religion based discrimination.

[Jeff Lebowski]

showing my extreme ignorance: i have no idea to what extent Israel discriminates based on religion -

however, assuming they do openly discriminate based on religion, i sorta see maximus' point in the sense that one can both be of the opinion that Israel has the right to exist, while being against their religion based discrimination.

30% of Israeli citizens are arabs. They don't "openly discriminate" in the way you imply. And they have every bit as much right to have a jewish state as the neighboring countries have to be islamic states. There is more religious freedom in Israel than any other country in the region.

By the way, go look up how the jewish populations in places like Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Russia, etc have changed over the last 20-30 years or so. They are being systematically expelled by persecution, violence, etc. There are hardly any jews left in those countries. After the holocaust and decades of open persecution, you are going to tell them they can't have a homeland?

[falafel]

Zionism is a misnomer in 2023. Zionism was the establishment of a Jewish state. It's done. Israel exists. To be anti zionist literally means to be against the state of isreal existing. Now I understand that the definition has been coopted to mean whatever Palestinian activists want it to mean, but that doesn't change what the word means.

Well, language is fluid. The meanings of words change all the time.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Well, language is fluid. The meanings of words change all the time.

Silence is violence.