2024 Presidential Election Thread

[Jeff Lebowski]

2.) It goes straight against the arguments that Trump is a threat to democracy.

This is nonsense. Maybe there are people dumb enough to believe it though.

[Goatnapper'96]

This is nonsense. Maybe there are people dumb enough to believe it though.

Many people believe that Trump won the election and very intelligent and successful people, on this venue, were surprised Biden about Biden's cognitive decline because people they trust told them Biden was just fine.

I don't think the goal is to get people to believe Mamala is a threat to democracy-the goal is to get people to tune out "threat to democracy" as a concern.

[BlueK]

Many people believe that Trump won the election and very intelligent and successful people, on this venue, were surprised Biden about Biden's cognitive decline because people they trust told them Biden was just fine.

I don't think the goal is to get people to believe Mamala is a threat to democracy-the goal is to get people to tune out "threat to democracy" as a concern.

yes, and with a secondary message of we're not a democracy anyway, so you don't need to worry about it. It's completely just about shielding the base. To those outside of that group it's a silly argument. But that's not the intended audience anyway.

[myboynoah]

They are saying it for 2 reasons:

1.) It is easy and fast to get out. This gives their strategists time to generate or finalize their efforts to define her from a policy perspective while making sure the vacuum is not filled by just Democrats telling us what a modern day American hero Joe Biden is.

2.) It goes straight against the arguments that Trump is a threat to democracy. Following the Bannon playbook if the Right can throw as much shit against the wall of threats to democracy it desensitizes folks. It is an effort to use Trump's weakness against Mamala.

Maybe, but that is really only effective with MAGA, which is already voting for Trump. Just another piece of red meat to keep the MAGA cult energized? Maybe your #1 is more correct. It fills a void until something better comes along. Lord knows that calling Harris "Lyin' Kamala" isn't very catchy.

[Uncle Ted]

Sorry for the late and verbose post, but I've been delightfully distracted. But I want to respond to your post which gets a from me. My initial reaction was, "Wait, a thoughtful post that responds directly to the question, provides substantive and interesting information, and is bereft of snark or stupid commentators like catturd, Prosobiec, OAN, etc.? Who is this guy and what has he done with Uncle Ted?" But I kind of regret typing that as it throws unnecessary shade on a good post. Thanks for that.



I don't know what would qualify as an "official report," but among the several nonpartisan analysts I referred to are The Center for Election Innovation and Research, Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency ("There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised."), and The Brennan Center for Justice (although they say it was only "one of" the most secure elections in history). Moreover, no one has come forward with any credible evidence of fraud or errors sufficient to make any difference in the outcome. In a country with more than 100,000 voting precincts and many tens of millions of voters, there will ALWAYS be examples of individual fraud or error. Trump's own Justice Department has confirmed there were no errors sufficient to change the result.

The first link is simply a statement. ("There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.") But as I pointed out without a way to audit the results how can they tell?

It is very possible that voting machines can be dynamically modified. Once the election is over, it simply resets itself to the default state. How to do protect a voting machine from hacker attacks? There is no prefect security when it comes to computers. With enough money and/or resources you can come close but perfect security is a unicorn. In fact, at DEFCON (hacker conference in Vegas) they hack voting machines every year:

[

A group of security experts did issue a statement following the 2020 election which I very much agree with... In part, they said:

We are aware of alarming assertions being made that the 2020 election was "rigged" by exploiting technical vulnerabilities. However, in every case of which we are aware, these claims either have been unsubstantiated or are technically incoherent. To our collective knowledge, no credible evidence has been put forth that supports a conclusion that the 2020 election outcome in any state has been altered through technical compromise.

That said, it is imperative that the US continue working to bolster the security of elections against sophisticated adversaries. At a minimum, all states should employ election security practices and mechanisms recommended by experts to increase assurance in election outcomes, such as post-election risk-limiting audits.

https://www.mattblaze.org/blog/election-letter/


They also reference the NASEM study ("Securing the Vote"), which gives a number of recommendations including using either human-readable paper ballots (such as optical "bubble" ones) or voting machines that provide the capacity for independent auditing (voter-verifiable paper audit trail or VVPAT). They also recommend that machines that don't produce a VVPAT should be removed from service as soon as possible. See section 4.11 of this study.

No matter how many safeguards one implements, in a country this vast we will never be absolutely sure. Even VVAPT, while a useful tool, has potential weaknesses. The question (and it's worthy of ongoing discussion) is what additional safeguards do we impose that are cost-effective and don't unnecessarily diminish voter participation?

Adding VVPAT to voting machines is not expensive. It is simply a printing device attached to the voting machine. Most security experts would rather voting be done by paper (optical scanner).

The thing that VVPAT adds is public perception that their vote actually counted and was counted correct. The VVPAT printer prints out exactly how you voted in a human readable format. Before my county had VVPAT printers on our voting machines I complained to the local voting official that while the machine seemed to take my vote I had no idea that it was in its memory. I recall even asking once if they could show me my vote in the machine which panicked the volunteers at the polls. They gave me persons contact information and I called him. To make a long story short they added VVPAT printers. For people that don't trust computers it is important to show them their vote on paper. Of course, given the crap I have seen in my lifetime I absolutely don't trust any computers.

My biggest issue is with people like Trump who either make up errors (busloads of out-of-state voters, rigged machines, suitcases of false ballots, etc.) or baselessly claim the elections are unfair, rigged, corrupt, etc. They aren't. And claiming they are reduces confidence in our institutions and paves the way for an authoritarian to step in with promises of saving us from what is really a nonexistent problem. Trump is a buffoonish demagogue who does vastly more damage to our institutions than the isolated examples of voting errors.

It doesn't help these people to see on the news someone that gets convicted for voter fraud. Most of the voter fraud we see in the news is surrounding mail-in ballots. I have included a small sample below... They are easy to find. Folks see this on the news and people suspect that an election is being thrown. Such speculate is the seeds of violence or, worse, a civil war. France went to the extreme and outlawed mail-in ballots to give their public confidence in their elections. There is a need for mail-in ballots but it is small.

The other problem is voter authentication. Texas requires voter ID but a lot of states don't. You need an ID for a lot of things and, therefore, it is not a burden to produce one to vote.

Recently there was a house bill to require proof of citizenship and democrats voted against it claiming it was a non-issue... not enough of them vote (that is the claim):

Embedded Tweet

If this bill makes it past the senate, I am sure the president will veto it.

As for the claim there is not enough of them... in Texas, "95,000 individuals identified by DPS as non-U.S. citizens have a matching voter registration record in Texas, approximately 58,000 of whom have voted in one or more Texas elections." https://www.sos.texas.gov/about/news...9/012519.shtml There is a lot of non-citizen voting going on in other states as well. Yet, democrats don't care enough to do anything able it for some reason.

News sample surrounding mail-in ballots:

Affidavits filed with supreme Court in Harris co, TX of ballot harvesting plot using mail in ballots from mail boxes, nursing homes & the homeless

https://texasscorecard.com/local/aff...esting-scheme/

Michigan man charged with forging daughter's ballot

https://www.wxyz.com/news/canton-tow...bsentee-ballot

2 men, one a previous mayoral candidate, charged with submitting 8,000 unlawful voter registrations in California, MS13 reported to be involved

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/man...-fraud-in-l-a/

Hawaiian residents receiving Ballots for dead people

https://www.kitv.com/story/42787318/...ormer-resident

different media sites report 100/200/180/128 "briefcases" "boxes" "cases" full of 100s to 1000s of ballots found inside of "vault" "facility" in Puerto Rico 1 week after elections. (2 examples)

Story #1 https://www.wfaa.com/amp/article/new...1-a239a4e37ccd

Story#2 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/u...o-ballots.html

109 ballots sent to Michigan insane asylum

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...arently-voted/

Hundreds of bundled ballots in D.C found left unsecured in mailboxes, & outside of apartment complexes

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/p...rrier/2432757/

400, 300, & 100 fraudulent ballots found bundled in Patterson NJ haledon ward , south ward mailboxes

https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/20...not-count.html

Numerous Ballots found trashed at wedding reception after church used as voter election hall

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...tunning-video/

Texas woman votes in person, finds out an absentee vote was also cast in California

https://summit.news/2020/11/10/woman...in-california/

NJ man arrested for forging another person's ballot

https://www.nj.com/hunterdon/2020/11...ities-say.html

Houston man arrested with stealing 100 pieces of mail including ballots

https://www.khou.com/article/news/cr...d-cb1c86a40202

"Trump" supporter arrested forging dead mother's signature on absentee ballot

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/-trum...b61c185f4848de

2 filled out mailed Ballots from Alabama end up delivered to Katy Texas resident

https://www.click2houston.com/decisi...-katy-mailbox/

19 illegals in NC arrested in 2020 for voting in 2016 & 2018 ,

https://abc11.com/voter-fraud-non-ci...-vote/6402999/

CNN reports 2 armed men delivering truck full of fake ballots to collection center in philadelphia. 7 hours later the story changes to 2 armed q-anon men drive to philladelphia collection center thinking fake ballots we're being counted. (Many other outlets reporting both stories)

Story #1 https://www.newsbreak.com/pennsylvan...r-fake-ballots

Story#2 https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/07/us/pe...sts/index.html

Study finds 353 Counties in 29 states have voter registration that exceeds 100%

https://thewashingtonsentinel.com/st...t-exceeds-100/

Mexia, TX social worker charged with 134 counts of election fraud

https://tylerpaper.com/news/texas/me...58435.amp.html

Lehigh County, PA judge faces Election fraud charges stemming from June primary

https://www.wfmz.com/news/area/lehig...b4cb2e747.html

Postal worker arrested with 800 pieces of mail and ballots hidden in trunk of his car

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdny/pr...which-included

Judicial watch finds 1.8 Million ghost voters in 29 states

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-voters-in-29/

Dead people in Michigan found voting via absentee ballots

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/us-pre...ot-in-michigan

2 Michigan USPS Employees sign affidavit of orders from supervisors & systemic backdating of late ballots

https://amgreatness.com/2020/11/06/a...lots-to-nov-3/

18 Stolen Ballots found "under a rock" in West valley field Phoenix Arizona

https://ktar.com/story/3673586/18-st...ned-to-voters/

USPS disreguards order to sweep facilities with police to find unprocessed ballots after USPS confirms 300,000 ballots unaccounted for Nationwide

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...outputType=amp

Neighbors in Colorado Springs report car stealing ballots from mail boxes

https://krdo.com/news/2020/10/14/mai...-neighborhood/

Mail and ballots found dumped in Nampa Idaho Store Parking lot

https://www.ktvb.com/mobile/article/...6-7843e21c7e47

Ballots stolen from mail boxes in Norwalk Connecticut

https://www.thehour.com/news/article...n-15648784.php

Numerous houses in Lane County Oregon neighborhood have ballots stolen from mail boxes

https://www.registerguard.com/story/...20/5999884002/

Tucson Arizona resident has 4 ballots stolen from mail box and mysteriously returned

https://kvoa.com/news/2020/10/14/tuc...then-returned/

Store Owner in SF Ca Witnesses mail box break in, ballot dropped as thief flees

https://abc7news.com/mailbox-break-i...allot/7517508/

Dead people from 1915 and 1919 caught voting in New York

https://nypost.com/2020/11/02/dead-p...-records-show/

Some Bucks County Pennsylvania voters receiving pre sealed ballot return envelopes. How many? Who knows

https://www.newsbreak.com/pennsylvan...llot-envelopes

Hundreds of uncounted ballots found hidden in massachusetts Grafton town clerk's vault

https://www.milforddailynews.com/new...n-clerks-vault

Discarded ballots found dumped outside of drive thru ATM machine in california

https://www.newsweek.com/discarded-m...ia-atm-1537386

Dozens (est 40) ballots go missing in Contra Costa county CA

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/poli...ounty/2388551/

[myboynoah]

Many people believe that Trump won the election and very intelligent and successful people, on this venue, were surprised Biden about Biden's cognitive decline because people they trust told them Biden was just fine.

I don't think the goal is to get people to believe Mamala is a threat to democracy-the goal is to get people to tune out "threat to democracy" as a concern.

What is "Mamala?" Is that a thing out there. I know UT uses it,

[Uncle Ted]

It's okay, UT. This is all going to work out. The Dems are going to vote democratically to nominate a candidate according to their rules and will be overwhelmingly ecstatic about their choice. They will hold a convention in August where they will unify behind Kamala Harris and it will eclipse the Repub convention in energy and enthusiasm. Then in November America will vote and will elect the next President of the United States in a uniquely American "democratic" fashion via the electoral college, but not by popular vote. This is the way. It will all be okay.

Yeah, the Dems are forcing a virtual roll call so they don't have a riot at their convention... a riot would be more entertaining. Maybe the Dems will just let BLM'ers loot and burn down chicago so they will be happy that they didn't get an open convention.

[Jeff Lebowski]

All that "evidence" about election fraud and not a single win in court, even with Trump-appointed judges. Get out of here with that conspiracy nonsense, UT.

[Moliere]

Is it Trump or the fact that folks really don't care about that anymore? I view it as more of a bottom up change and not some revolutionary change of accepting filth and sleaze that spontaneously came about in 2016. Trump, and Mamala, are symptoms of our greater latitude and lack of collective concern about folks sexual miscreancy.

It’s not the sexual miscreancy that is the issue. It’s her reporting to someone she was in a relationship with and getting promoted under [pun intended] him. People still care about things like that, or they should, but Trump is so ethically debased that the GOP can’t use it.

[BlueK]

Yeah, the Dems are forcing a virtual roll call so they don't have a riot at their convention... a riot would be more entertaining. Maybe the Dems will just let BLM'ers loot and burn down chicago that they will be happy that they didn't get an open convention.

They're doing the virtual roll call so they can get an official nominee in time to meet Ohio's deadline. It was going to happen already to nominate Biden before he withdrew.

[Uncle Ted]

LOL... now trending on TiKTok:

Embedded Tweet

[myboynoah]

They're doing the virtual roll call so they can get an official nominee in time to meet Ohio's deadline. It was going to happen already to nominate Biden before he withdrew.

So they were already planning to deviate from the norm?!?!!???!?!? Freaking non-democratic Dems. This is huge!

[Uncle Ted]

How does one repeat the claim that 66% of the US population has died from Covid-19 more than once?

Embedded Tweet

[BlueK]

So they were already planning to deviate from the norm?!?!!???!?!? Freaking non-democratic Dems. This is huge!

Ohio has a deadline for getting a name onto the ballot that falls before the date of the convention. This was the workaround the dems came up with. Has zero to do with Harris

[Uncle Ted]

Harris was in a relationship with Willie Brown, her suoervisor, at the time that Brown promoted her. Brown was also 30 years older than her. None of this matters today because Donald Trump is the other nominee and his ethics are worse. If the nominee were Mitt then the fact that she was promoted under an unethical scenario would have more teeth. But it doesn’t, because of Trump.

Hey Molie, I hear that Kamala Harris is going to be in H-Town today... are you going? Is Texas a swing state now?