2024 Presidential Election Thread

[chrisrenrut]

I always laughed at one of the lines from Dennis Duffy in 30 Rock, aka the Allstate Mayhem guy, when Jack asked him his politics. He said he was “Social conservative, fiscal Liberal”. At the time in the last 00’s, it made a lot more sense as was more funny because it took what most saw as the worst traits from each party.

Now that up is down and good is evil, black is white, dogs and cats living together, it isn’t quite as funny. Conservatives grow the federal deficit at unprecedented rates, and liberals have gone extreme on social issues (although conservatives don’t hold the high ground there anymore either).

[fusnik]

Can you point to a Romney vote that would have been different but for Trump's influence? Should Romney, or anyone, always vote against Trump's position on an issue if they would otherwise support it? I could imagine my voting for something I believed in, irrespective of Trump's support for it, even though it would evidently feed into your absurd belief I'm a big Trump fan (perhaps the zenith in dull-witted reasoning).

To your question in your follow-up post: I don't know--but to belabor my foregoing point, I don't think one should forsake a principled position just because His Orange Immenseness happens to support it as well. The best I've got is my belief that time will eventually bring more of the country around to an understanding that Trump is an unprincipled snake oil salesman who has (and would going forward) damage our institutions and global reputation, and that we can do better than that. I wish that shift would begin by the Dems appointing an intellectually vigorous nominee whose primary appeal is based on positions, character, and inspiring leadership skills, not simply "the other side is evil". Yeah, I'm prepared for disappointment.

As an example I’d say Mitts support and vote for ACB.

He didn’t find him fit for office after the first impeachment, yet he went along with the third SCJ and one in record time.

If you think he’s guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, follow your party’s previous precedent and let the voters decide.

It’s this tacit support that gives Trump his power because he knows that regardless his behaviors if he will do the dirty work that conservatives want him to do they all will bend the knee.

When he says I can shoot someone, those that keep voting for his party’s candidates, say as long as it’s someone from the other side.

[fusnik]

The solution is Trump and a sizeable chunk of Boomers dying.

My preferred solution is that the GOP base suddenly take an interest in fiscal discipline and stopping governemnt overreach. But this is as realistic as your solution of convincing conservatives to give democrats a monopoly of power.

I’m sure 20 more years of Trump style politics is going to do wonders for our nations discourse and won’t have lasting consequences to future generations.

[beefytee]

This convo goes nowhere, but I’m legitimately interested in what you guys think the solution should be?

I don't have a good solution. I do think that had Ranked Choice Voting been around in 2016 for the Republican primaries and caucuses. I don't think there is any way that Trump wins. He has his grip on the party now, so it probably wouldn't matter this year.

But RCV moderates the candidates pretty quickly and move to more consensus candidates who a majority of people find palatable.

[PaloAltoCougar]

As an example I’d say Mitts support and vote for ACB.

He didn’t find him fit for office after the first impeachment, yet he went along with the third SCJ and one in record time.

If you think he’s guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, follow your party’s previous precedent and let the voters decide.

It’s this tacit support that gives Trump his power because he knows that regardless his behaviors if he will do the dirty work that conservatives want him to do they all will bend the knee.

When he says I can shoot someone, those that keep voting for his party’s candidates, say as long as it’s someone from the other side.

Not suie you're bolstering my position or yours. Mitt would have voted in favor of ACB no matter who nominated her. That said, I do agree that rushing her nomination while pigeonholing Merrick Garland's was cheap political trickery. Oddly, oday, at least, liberals ought to be thankful for ACB's appointment.

[fusnik]

I don't have a good solution. I do think that had Ranked Choice Voting been around in 2016 for the Republican primaries and caucuses. I don't think there is any way that Trump wins. He has his grip on the party now, so it probably wouldn't matter this year.

But RCV moderates the candidates pretty quickly and move to more consensus candidates who a majority of people find palatable.

I think, and it’s been years since I looked this up, but Trump in 2016 with ranked choice voting would have lost a few states to Ted Cruz but still would have won a majority of votes. But it wasn’t because he wasn’t a plurality of people’s 1-2-3rd choice but because a chunk of people would have put him last.

Honestly I could be wrong it was years ago and I don’t really know how RCV works. I do know multiple states have outlawed it and Alaska may be recalling the practice.

Even if RCV was the silver bullet it would take years to get it implemented in each state.

[Northwestcoug]

A deSantis post-mortem from Nick Cattagio/Allahpundit, which doubles as a sad indictment of the GOP:

Today, however, I’m less interested in why DeSantis lost than how he lost. Consider what he might have said, or not said, in Sunday’s withdrawal announcement.

He might have refused to make an endorsement, as Chris Christie did when he dropped out. No biggie, if so: Again, Trump’s chances of victory do not hinge on Ron DeSantis’ support, to put it mildly.

He might have endorsed the party rather than a candidate in order to signal to GOP voters that he remains a team player. “I’ll support the eventual Republican nominee, and I expect that will be Trump.”

Or, if he was intent on burnishing his populist bona fides by grousing about “blah blah old-guard corporatism,” he might have done so without endorsing anyone. “I’ll support any Republican as nominee who resolves to put the working people of this country first. No more corporate giveaways, no more cheap illegal labor, no more blood and treasure defending countries most of us can’t find on a map.” That message would have been true to the image DeSantis had tried to create for himself in the race as the candidate who took populism seriously. If it’s the policy that matters above all, he should have endorsed the policy alone in exiting.

But he knew that wouldn’t have worked. To be a Republican politician in good standing now is to be pro-Trump, not pro-populism. And you don’t get to be pro-Trump on your timetable, as Ted Cruz discovered in 2016. If you want anything resembling a future in this party, you must be pro-Trump on Trump’s timetable.

It’s no coincidence that two South Carolinians who literally owe their jobs to Nikki Haley opted to endorse Trump in the last 72 hours, days before she makes her last stand. As governor, Haley appointed Tim Scott to the Senate; on Friday he held a rally with Trump in New Hampshire. As a former governor, Haley rallied behind Rep. Nancy Mace in her 2022 House primary against a Trump-backed challenger; on Monday Mace rewarded that good deed by … endorsing Trump.

Trump doesn’t need Scott or Mace’s endorsements either, of course. But he coveted them and asked for them before New Hampshire, I assume, because it tickled him to watch people who owe Haley favors nonetheless choose him over her in her hour of political need. It’s a bit of gratuitous humiliation for his last remaining challenger and a show of his strength that he can make senators and House members who should rightly align with his opponent perform silly little political pet tricks for him on demand. Especially those like Mace, who once had a lot to say about January 6, 2021.

Endorsing Trump in his farewell announcement was DeSantis’ version of that. After all he’s been through, imagine how it must have pained him to have to perform a similarly degrading pet trick as he left the stage. And how much Trump must have relished that pain.

Students of my posts will recall I was the original Fusnik in 2016, stating that the only way to eradicate Trump's influence on the GOP for good was to vote en masse for Clinton. In a political vacuum, that's probably the only way to do it this round, but in reality it ain't going to happen. His legacy will take at least a couple of voting cycles to die, and that's if he loses this election, a big if.

Trump should be proud of his complete transformation of the GOP. It really is a wonder to see how many elected republicans kiss the ring, the ones who don't need to even more so. Good luck America.

[Jeff Lebowski]

A deSantis post-mortem from Nick Cattagio/Allahpundit, which doubles as a sad indictment of the GOP:



Students of my posts will recall I was the original Fusnik in 2016, stating that the only way to eradicate Trump's influence on the GOP for good was to vote en masse for Clinton. In a political vacuum, that's probably the only way to do it this round, but in reality it ain't going to happen. His legacy will take at least a couple of voting cycles to die, and that's if he loses this election, a big if.

Trump should be proud of his complete transformation of the GOP. It really is a wonder to see how many elected republicans kiss the ring, the ones who don't need to even more so. Good luck America.

I think he loses badly this time. Biden is a walking corpse, but I think it will be really tough for Trump to win enough independents. After losing, he will once again claim that he really won and we will probably see another January 6th. Wouldn't surprise me if he ran again 2028. OK, it would surprise me some, but anything is possible these days.

Still rooting for the stroke.

[Commando]

You seem confused.

Super confused. If only I could reach the same enlightenment and wisdom you have! Or at least the self-confidence!

[fusnik]

Not suie you're bolstering my position or yours. Mitt would have voted in favor of ACB no matter who nominated her. That said, I do agree that rushing her nomination while pigeonholing Merrick Garland's was cheap political trickery. Oddly, oday, at least, liberals ought to be thankful for ACB's appointment.

If ACB came before the impeachment I could squint my eyes and say, sure, but she came after.

Conservatives have used Trumps vileness as a shield to do whatever they want to do. It’s why after a full day there isn’t one serious response to what actually can be done to stop MAGA, most in the deep recesses of their souls are ok with him.

Look at George Will’s recent op-ed, the permission structure to vote for him is starting to be reopened.

[Bo Diddley]

I think he loses badly this time. Biden is a walking corpse, but I think it will be really tough for Trump to win enough independents. After losing, he will once again claim that he really won and we will probably see another January 6th. Wouldn't surprise me if he ran again 2028. OK, it would surprise me some, but anything is possible these days.

Still rooting for the stroke.

I agree that Trump loses, but there's no way a the Capitol gets breached again.

It would be hilarious if he runs again in 2028 and continues to sandbag the GOP.

[Commando]

I agree that Trump loses, but there's no way a the Capitol gets breached again.

It would be hilarious if he runs again in 2028 and continues to sandbag the GOP.

Kind of hard to command a crowd to attack the capitol when there is no platform from which to do so. And you think the sitting president is just going to eat popcorn from a tent and watch a bunch of rednecks fuck around? The hammer would definitely fall fast and heavy on any shenanigans.

I think Trump should launch his 2028 campaign from prison-- like how Suge Knight has that podcast over the prison phone? I bet the GOP would be powerless but to nominate him again!

[Jeff Lebowski]

It would be hilarious if he runs again in 2028 and continues to sandbag the GOP.

You are a sick, sick man.

[Northwestcoug]

I think he loses badly this time. Biden is a walking corpse, but I think it will be really tough for Trump to win enough independents. After losing, he will once again claim that he really won and we will probably see another January 6th. Wouldn't surprise me if he ran again 2028. OK, it would surprise me some, but anything is possible these days.

Still rooting for the stroke.

I hope you are right (either a sound defeat or a stroke). I do think/hope he will lose, but it’s going to be too close for comfort. It just feels like a chunk of independents won’t show up this time.

[Bo Diddley]

You are a sick, sick man.

It's called dark humor.