The Mass Shooting Thread

[Jeff Lebowski]

Worries about condemning the phrase "you are in our thoughts and prayers" while condemning supposed modelled behaviour also deepens the political divide. It is perfectly reasonable to show respect for simple expressions of empathy and also show respect for laments about inaction.

[Bo Diddley]

Worries about condemning the phrase "you are in our thoughts and prayers" while condemning supposed modelled behaviour also deepens the political divide. It is perfectly reasonable to show respect for simple expressions of empathy and also show respect for laments about inaction.

I think you hit the nail on the head. And when that is the case, it is probably best to try to see things from the other person's perspective and look for ways to find common ground to address the underlying issue.

[tooblue]

Weird. You are modeling the behavior we are talking about.

Beefytee is right: Bitch all you want about the inaction or that someone may disagree with your policy ideas. That has absolutely nothing to do with these simple expressions of empathy. This is a performative trope that is obnoxious and only deepens the political divide.

From the Goldberg article:

Worries about condemning the phrase "you are in our thoughts and prayers" while condemning supposed modelled behaviour also deepens the political divide. It is perfectly reasonable to show respect for simple expressions of empathy and also show respect for laments about inaction.

[Northwestcoug]

The shipped sailed probably 100 years ago for a realistic environment for a Canadian or European type regulatory state for firearms. There are too many guns in circulation. You aren't going to limit them. Admitting this and moving forward with solutions given this fact is the only way forward. We are a violent country.

This is sadly true. If the US has another couple of generations as a democracy there could be a mass movement towards significant modifications of the 2nd amendment. But it just seems hopeless now. It's just an accepted part of life now, which is a horrible indictment on our society.

Mental health is at the center of the mass shooting issue. Balancing the constitutional rights of the mentally ill with the safety of society should probably err on the side of the safety of society.

This is even more sad. Laws that would make perfect sense in any other responsible country go nowhere here. And even if the NRA/GOP saw the light and moved with the rest of the country, there's still multiple guns for every citizen in the country that are circulating.

Just utterly depressing.

[USUC]

The gun control discussions are about the most frustrating of all policy discussions.

For all the mocking of the apparent inaction expressed by the "thoughts and prayers" mantra, expressions of "just do something" has similar real world effects. The "do something" is rarely defined or defined in a way that is incredibly unrealistic. The 2nd amendment, the 10th amendment, and the 4th/14th amendment make mass gun confiscation nearly impossible. The SCOTUS will reinforce gun laws for another generation. The shipped sailed probably 100 years ago for a realistic environment for a Canadian or European type regulatory state for firearms. There are too many guns in circulation. You aren't going to limit them. Admitting this and moving forward with solutions given this fact is the only way forward. We are a violent country. The mass shooting phenomenon is a social contagion. Mental health is at the center of the mass shooting issue. Balancing the constitutional rights of the mentally ill with the safety of society should probably err on the side of the safety of society.

[Jeff Lebowski]

So don't be cynical about the messaging that solely calls for thoughts and prayers. Check.
There really isn't much we can do to address this attack on innocent people. Check.
Victim numbers are low, so again, there isn't much we can do. Check.
We just need to stop giving these events attention. Check.

That just doesn't square with me, aside from tamping down the cynicism over repub calls for thoughts and prayers.

I believe we can and should do something more than what we are doing right now, like trying to keep sick people from getting access to firearms.

Weird. You are modeling the behavior we are talking about.

Beefytee is right: Bitch all you want about the inaction or that someone may disagree with your policy ideas. That has absolutely nothing to do with these simple expressions of empathy. This is a performative trope that is obnoxious and only deepens the political divide.

From the Goldberg article:

The fundamental problem with condemning “thoughts and prayers” is that it tries to snuff out a basic decency and skip straight to a policy argument. It suggests that people cannot show the most minimal kindness and expression of social solidarity to their fellow citizens unless they agree with their preferred policies.

Imagine your friend’s home was destroyed by a tornado, your co-worker’s spouse was diagnosed with cancer, or anyone you know experienced some other kind of misfortune. It would be right, proper, and morally obligatory to offer the kind of support that is captured by phrases like, “You’re in my thoughts and prayers.” It strikes me as a good thing when strangers have the same response.

Indeed, when the recent floods in Texas swept away dozens of children, millions offered messages of support on social media or in person. It’s simply a decent thing to do. But when natural disasters strike, few say in their aftermath, “Don’t give me your thoughts and prayers, do something about flooding.” (The exception, of course, is when people try to make everything about climate change).

No one can prevent floods, hurricanes, or earthquakes, of course, but policymakers can do all sorts of things to make them less deadly. Debates about what should have been done—creating better early warning systems, crafting more resilient housing standards, improving zoning codes—are all legitimate. But it’s pretty much only in the aftermath of mass shootings that people say, “Spare me your ‘thoughts and prayers.’”

There’s a certain arrogance at work here. As far as I can tell, Jen Psaki didn’t lose a loved one in Minneapolis. Who is she to say that we shouldn’t offer moral support and sympathy to those who did? She would never say such a thing in the wake of a natural disaster. “Spare me your talk about thoughts and prayers; we need better building codes,” is not a familiar refrain—and for good reason.

[beefytee]

So don't be cynical about the messaging that solely calls for thoughts and prayers. Check.
There really isn't much we can do to address this attack on innocent people. Check.
Victim numbers are low, so again, there isn't much we can do. Check.
We just need to stop giving these events attention. Check.

That just doesn't square with me, aside from tamping down the cynicism over repub calls for thoughts and prayers.

I believe we can and should do something more than what we are doing right now, like trying to keep sick people from getting access to firearms.

I'm fine making some changes to gun laws. I think we should.

I don't think these changes will significantly reduce shootings like these.

[myboynoah]

Well then go after the inaction. Don’t go after prayers.

Offering prayers has nothing to do with the problem.

I agree that turning schools into secure virtual penitentiaries is counter productive.

I also don’t think there is much we can to do eliminate this any more than we can completely eliminate any other crime.

As tragic as these events are, the number of victims is so low on a national scale, there isn’t much we can do to further prevent them all together.

Really, the attention that these event get is about as big of contributor to these events further happening as anything.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/news/content/ar-AA1LuufN

So don't be cynical about the messaging that solely calls for thoughts and prayers. Check.
There really isn't much we can do to address this attack on innocent people. Check.
Victim numbers are low, so again, there isn't much we can do. Check.
We just need to stop giving these events attention. Check.

That just doesn't square with me, aside from tamping down the cynicism over repub calls for thoughts and prayers.

I believe we can and should do something more than what we are doing right now, like trying to keep sick people from getting access to firearms.

[frank ryan]

Too much scolding?

This is the pattern I see:

1) A sick person shoots up a school, store, church, synagogue, or other public place.
2) The repubs throw out "thoughts and prayers" for the victims and their families.
3) The repubs call for schools to be barricaded, and deflect all calls for limiting access to firearms.
4) A sick person shoots up a school, store, church, synagogue, or other public place.
5) Rinse and repeat.

I don't oppose prayer at all. I just thing something needs to be in addition to the prayer. Otherwise we'll just be back here again.

Is that too much scolding?

A lot of these guys get radicalized online. This guy was another right-wing extremist. There is a whole subculture around celebrating these events.


Plenty of times there will cries for better access to mental health so troubled have easier access to help. But then funding gets cut. Community and school programs that might help get gutted.


Without specific threats there isn't a lot to be done about restricting constitutional right due to mental health concerns.

[beefytee]

Thoughts and prayers are not enough. They just aren't. But that is all the repubs have to offer. Yes, pray. Pray everyday. Pray for the the victims. Pray for the country. Pray this never happens again. But how about some action, starting with background investigations and waiting periods for those that want to obtain guns, just to start? Instead the repubs want to make fortresses of our schools. Sick people will then move onto softer targets.

Yes, God help us.

Well then go after the inaction. Don’t go after prayers.

Offering prayers has nothing to do with the problem.

I agree that turning schools into secure virtual penitentiaries is counter productive.

I also don’t think there is much we can to do eliminate this any more than we can completely eliminate any other crime.

As tragic as these events are, the number of victims is so low on a national scale, there isn’t much we can do to further prevent them all together.

Really, the attention that these event get is about as big of contributor to these events further happening as anything.

Thompson went on to say that the only group of people the shooter "admired" and "idolized" were other school shooters and mass murderers.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/news/content/ar-AA1LuufN

[myboynoah]

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Too much scolding?

This is the pattern I see:

1) A sick person shoots up a school, store, church, synagogue, or other public place.
2) The repubs throw out "thoughts and prayers" for the victims and their families.
3) The repubs call for schools to be barricaded, and deflect all calls for limiting access to firearms.
4) A sick person shoots up a school, store, church, synagogue, or other public place.
5) Rinse and repeat.

I don't oppose prayer at all. I just thing something needs to be in addition to the prayer. Otherwise we'll just be back here again.

Is that too much scolding?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Thoughts and prayers are not enough. They just aren't. But that is all the repubs have to offer. Yes, pray. Pray everyday. Pray for the the victims. Pray for the country. Pray this never happens again. But how about some action, starting with background investigations and waiting periods for those that want to obtain guns, just to start? Instead the repubs want to make fortresses of our schools. Sick people will then move onto softer targets.

Yes, God help us.

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[myboynoah]

So here we are in the cycle of yet another tragic mass shooting. I really would love for democrats and progressives to develop a compelling and coherent alternative to Trump and MAGA, but the folks are too incompetent to seize the opportunity. CNN's Jake Tapper (who I generally like) and others insist that we must use the mass shooter's correct pronouns. Are you kidding me?

Then we get this nonsense again:

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This is such a dumb response. Thoughts and prayers are a form of empathy - not a declaration that you are unwilling to do anything else. She knows this, of course:

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When are these folks going to realize that lecturing and scolding people is never going to win hearts and minds?

God help us.

Thoughts and prayers are not enough. They just aren't. But that is all the repubs have to offer. Yes, pray. Pray everyday. Pray for the the victims. Pray for the country. Pray this never happens again. But how about some action, starting with background investigations and waiting periods for those that want to obtain guns, just to start? Instead the repubs want to make fortresses of our schools. Sick people will then move onto softer targets.

Yes, God help us.

[USUC]

"How can we win back religious people? Maybe we should try to speak to their wants and needs in a compassionate and thoughtful way."

Catholic school children are shot and killed by a mass shooter

"Where is your God now, Sheeple?"

[Jeff Lebowski]

So here we are in the cycle of yet another tragic mass shooting. I really would love for democrats and progressives to develop a compelling and coherent alternative to Trump and MAGA, but the folks are too incompetent to seize the opportunity. CNN's Jake Tapper (who I generally like) and others insist that we must use the mass shooter's correct pronouns. Are you kidding me?

Then we get this nonsense again:

Embedded Tweet

This is such a dumb response. Thoughts and prayers are a form of empathy - not a declaration that you are unwilling to do anything else. She knows this, of course:

Embedded Tweet

When are these folks going to realize that lecturing and scolding people is never going to win hearts and minds?

God help us.