The United States of America

[YOhio]

I have always thought that the German health care system was the one most likely to provide what Americans would most likely support and embrace. I especially think that opt out provisions would be popular here.

Always? Like you were born with a knowledge of the German health care system.

[YOhio]

Do we not also have a commensurate multiplier of resources? What difference does population size have to do with it?

Newsflash. Size matters.

[byu71]

Yes, these people can and do file bankruptcy. But they often can work out some type of payment plan where most of their debt is forgiven and some type of reasonable payments are made.

In Canada and England no individual gets hurt with high medical costs. But obviously the entire populace suffers from lack of choice and longer waiting times for diagnostic tests and procedures and surgeries. So it's a trade-off.

Speaking of trade-offs. I am now going to instruct my kids that if I am on my death bed, check and see who is paying to keep me alive. If it is coming out of their inheritance, they can pull the plug. If the government is going to pay for it, keep me alive as long as possible and I hope Robin is making enough money that his taxes are going directly into keeping me alive.

[TripletDaddy]

Always? Like you were born with a knowledge of the German health care system.

Constantinople was NOT the capital of Turkey. Get over it.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Newsflash. Size matters.

I already said how I would vote in that poll.

[New Mexican Disaster]

Newsflash. Size matters.

Always? Like you were born with a knowledge of the German health care system.

Oh, man I am getting Hallelujahed again. I really have not been myself since the United States ended today.

[il Padrino Ute]

Do we not also have a commensurate multiplier of resources? What difference does population size have to do with it?

How about the number of doctors? Is there not already a shortage of physicians? It would seem that health care would need to be very much rationed without the needed doctors.

[YOhio]

Interesting thoughts...

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=5373107

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Interesting thoughts...

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=5373107

At least nobody is using hyperbole in today's events.

[New Mexican Disaster]

How about the number of doctors? Is there not already a shortage of physicians? It would seem that health care would need to be very much rationed without the needed doctors.

Well, one way to fix that would be to use a system like the German system (which I have ALWAYS loved, since I was in the pre-existence) which pays the tuition of doctors so they don't have such huge student loan burdens. Of course, they also make less money when they get out, too.

This should help fix a doctor shortage in allowing one of the prime barriers of entry to be lifted.

[venkman]

This legislation is certainly disheartening. Nowhere in this debate do I hear whether the federal government has the constitutional authority to do this. Not that this is a new problem; we've really strayed from the founder's vision of limiting the federal government to a set of enumerated powers. The ninth and tenth amendments for all practical purposes don't exist.

I sure hope we can get some of this rolled back, but Obama's first term may go down like FDR's first term and 1913 as severe blows to liberty and freedom by the collectivists.

[il Padrino Ute]

Well, one way to fix that would be to use a system like the German system (which I have ALWAYS loved, since I was in the pre-existence) which pays the tuition of doctors so they don't have such huge student loan burdens. Of course, they also make less money when they get out, too.

This should help fix a doctor shortage in allowing one of the prime barriers of entry to be lifted.

Will future doctors be willing to accept a lower salary?

[TripletDaddy]

Will future doctors be willing to accept a lower salary?

epu, have you seen colly wolly's thread? I would be interested in your thoughts (or venkman's) on his question, at least to the extent you feel comfortable answering. if not, no worries.

[venkman]

At least nobody is using hyperbole in today's events.

Hyperbolic, yes. The sky is not falling...yet. But this is really only the beginning; Pelosi has basically said as much. Single payer is the goal and all of the power over our lives that goes along with it. This legislation moves us in that direction as it will not reduce health care costs and will give the government new bureaucracies that they can expand like tentacles.

With the government in control of health care, they will have the rationale to regulate everything from food to firearms because every choice we potentially make can affect our health and if everyone is paying for your help then well...

Are we there yet? Of course not. Will we get there? I don't know...I hope not. But this is what the collectivists want. Time to wake up.

[RobinFinderson]

This legislation is certainly disheartening. Nowhere in this debate do I hear whether the federal government has the constitutional authority to do this. Not that this is a new problem; we've really strayed from the founder's vision of limiting the federal government to a set of enumerated powers. The ninth and tenth amendments for all practical purposes don't exist.

I sure hope we can get some of this rolled back, but Obama's first term may go down like FDR's first term and 1913 as severe blows to liberty and freedom by the collectivists.

Ultimately it will mean that our taxes will go up a bit, and everyone will have health insurance. We'll get used to the tax increase, we'll appreciate the health insurance, and if our taxes go up too much as a result of this, the entire nation will have a strong incentive to rein in costs.

The irony is that at some future date, a more liberal option will come up, and the Republicans will be fighting to save Obamacare using rhetoric like what we heard today regarding Medicare. Today, every Republican was a friend of medicare, with their complaining that Medicare was going to get cut in order to build a new entitlement program for someone else...subtext being 'Seniors! The good times are over! Don't forget it come the election!' This is the nadir of political cynicism, where Republicans feign support for a truly socialized medicine program in order to get the support of seniors in preventing the sharing of that good thing with anyone else.