The Utah Senate race

[pellegrino]

<speaking generally and not to you specifically>

If you didn't show up and vote in your local precinct you shouldn't bitch about the process. If you did show up and you still hate the process, by all means, bitch away.

I didn't show up this year, mostly because I was ambivalent on the candidates. So I not going to cry over Bennett losing or whine about not having a voice. I had my chance and elected not to participate.

You're missing the point. It's the delegate system that is flawed and is easily hi-jacked by those with enough motivation to do so. I'd much rather see a primary with every election rather than a convention of crazed delegates pulling the strings before the public truly gets an opportunity to decide. It would be a bit different if the opposing party had a chance but because of the nature of the political landscape in UT (i.e. one party system) the senator will essentially be chosen by party delegates and not by its citizens.

Don't get too worked up by my complaints. I have no vote in this race, now or in November.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You're missing the point. It's the delegate system that is flawed and is easily hi-jacked by those with enough motivation to do so. I'd much rather see a primary with every election rather than a convention of crazed delegates pulling the strings before the public truly gets an opportunity to decide. It would be a bit different if the opposing party had a chance but because of the nature of the political landscape in UT (i.e. one party system) the senator will essentially be chosen by party delegates and not by its citizens.

Don't get too worked up by my complaints. I have no vote in this race, now or in November.

Exactly.

I got myself on the Tea Party mailing list (just to keep tabs) and a few months ago they send out an e-mail stating that the Utah caucus system provides a unique opportunity to change the outcome of the election with a focused effort and some know-how. They used Chaffetz as an example and offered training sessions on how to dominate the caucus meetings and get the "right" people elected as delegates. It appears they succeeded.

[pellegrino]

Exactly.

I got myself on the Tea Party mailing list (just to keep tabs) and a few months ago they send out an e-mail stating that the Utah caucus system provides a unique opportunity to change the outcome of the election with a focused effort and some know-how. They used Chaffetz as an example and offered training sessions on how to dominate the caucus meetings and get the "right" people elected as delegates. It appears they succeeded.

Thank you for providing the evidence that proves my point. Both parties have this problem, it's inherent to the caucus system and perpetuates a Tammany Hall approach to politics.

[Viking]

While you may call it absurd, I actually think the delegate system in Utah is potentially one of the most corrupt electoral systems in the US.

Add that you have candidates that would qualify as members of the fascist party (including Lee) and it's no wonder you guys have dumbasses like Chaffetz, Buttars,etc.

It's a system where someone with no experience like Eagar had a shot. Holy cow. You guys need to change that and fast.

[byu71]

All this fine advice coming from you folks outside the state is heartwarming. To think you care so much about what is happening to us dumb, stupid folks here in Utah. It is a wake up call and those of us who are smart and reasonable can perhaps fix the system so we can get folks like Shumer, Boxer and Patty whatever her last name is in Washington, to represent us.

In the mean time, how long have we had this sucky system. Anyone know? My guess would be, not so long. Otherwise Bennet and Hatch would have been gone long ago and moderates like Leavitt and Huntsman would have never made it.

[YOhio]

All this fine advice coming from you folks outside the state is heartwarming. To think you care so much about what is happening to us dumb, stupid folks here in Utah. It is a wake up call and those of us who are smart and reasonable can perhaps fix the system so we can get folks like Shumer, Boxer and Patty whatever her last name is in Washington, to represent us.

In the mean time, how long have we had this sucky system. Anyone know? My guess would be, not so long. Otherwise Bennet and Hatch would have been gone long ago and moderates like Leavitt and Huntsman would have never made it.

[Viking]

oh you are so persecuted.

[YOhio]

oh you are so persecuted.

It's funny to watch byu71 rant against conservatives, moderates and liberals all in the same thread.

[byu71]

It's educational and informative to watch byu71 rant against conservatives, moderates and liberals all in the same thread.

I fixed it for you.

[YOhio]

I fixed it for you.

Maybe she can calm you down.

[byu71]

Maybe she can calm you down.

NIce, a good wholesome smile calms the spirit.

[Viking]

Why do these religious nuts like Mike Lee so much? Is he one of them?

How ironic that Rex Lee was a BYU president who tried to bring BYU an ethos more in line with traditional university values, but his life was tragically cut short.

I expect all candidates to actually sound like normal people once they have to pitch normal people in the primary. Pitching delegates in utah is a race to the fascist bottom. Remarkable that Eagar didn't actually pull it out. If it were 1939, that woman would be dressed up and ready to invade Poland

[I.J. Reilly]

You're missing the point. It's the delegate system that is flawed and is easily hi-jacked by those with enough motivation to do so. I'd much rather see a primary with every election rather than a convention of crazed delegates pulling the strings before the public truly gets an opportunity to decide. It would be a bit different if the opposing party had a chance but because of the nature of the political landscape in UT (i.e. one party system) the senator will essentially be chosen by party delegates and not by its citizens.

Don't get too worked up by my complaints. I have no vote in this race, now or in November.

While I totally support your point about the delegate system being easily hijack-able, I don't see a primary, or at least a closed primary, being the answer. The fringe elements are traditionally those that participate in primaries as well, while everyone else stays home. I am not registered as a republican, but I would sure have liked to had a voice in the caucus and the primary. Unfortunately, I will be shut out of both because I don't want to align myself with a particular party.

Now, an open primary system, that might bring you more moderate candidates.

[New Mexican Disaster]

All this fine advice coming from you folks outside the state is heartwarming. To think you care so much about what is happening to us dumb, stupid folks here in Utah. It is a wake up call and those of us who are smart and reasonable can perhaps fix the system so we can get folks like Shumer, Boxer and Patty whatever her last name is in Washington, to represent us.

In the mean time, how long have we had this sucky system. Anyone know? My guess would be, not so long. Otherwise Bennet and Hatch would have been gone long ago and moderates like Leavitt and Huntsman would have never made it.

I think that you forget that many of us are lapsed human beings who have left the bosom of mother Utah for other environs.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Thank you for providing the evidence that proves my point. Both parties have this problem, it's inherent to the caucus system and perpetuates a Tammany Hall approach to politics.

I dug around and found the e-mail. Here it is:

From: Utah Tea Party [mailto:saltlaketeaparty@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:11 PM
To: [the dude]
Subject: Utah Tea Party and 912--TIME FOR ACTION! Come learn how to become a Utah neighborhood delegate!

UTAH 912 and UTAH TEA PARTY RALLY!

We will show you how YOU can represent your neighborhood as a delegate and vote in the Utah state and county conventions! Now you can finally made a DIFFERENCE.

When: Saturday, 14 November 2009
Time: 10:00 a.m. to Noon
Where: Utah State Capitol (Inside in the Rotunda)
What: Neighborhood Call to Action! Exciting speakers! ***Delegate Training***

Come listen to keynote speaker Congressman Jason Chaffetz discuss the conservative principles that helped him win the election and how YOU too can REALLY make a difference.

We have organized 8 Tea Parties and 912 rallies here in Utah this past year--thousands have attended. THANK YOU! We organized Utah's First Tea Party on March 6, 2009 at the Utah State Capitol--long before Tea Parties were popular nationwide (see attached photo). We organized the first 912 rallies on March 13, 2009 around the State where we were challenged to make our voices be heard! The Utah Tea Parties, 912ers, and others have now joined forces to improve our government. This CALL TO ACTION event is NOT A CAMPAIGN RALLY.

After each of our protests and rallies, everyone keeps asking, "What's next? How can I make a REAL difference?" Now its time to take it to the next level--it it time for ACTION! Come to the rally and we will show you how the political system in Utah works. You will learn how you can become part of a delegation with real power.

Did you know?

* The secret to making local and national political change is with YOU AND YOUR NEIGHBORS.
* Utah has a unique situation which gives us an enormous opportunity--we have a DELEGATE system with DIRECT and MAJOR impact on Utah Elections.
* Delegates represent their neighborhood precinct in the State and County Conventions by voting for party candidates BEFORE the primary.
* If a candidate wins 60% of the delegate votes at the convention they become the party nominee and there is NO PRIMARY election--the winner immediately advances to the general election! This delegate process levels the playing field for anyone who wants to run for office.

Utah and America needs YOU to come and learn how YOU can really make a difference to elect freedom-loving candidates to Utah's political offices and to drive national policy. Speakers will discuss the issues that are keeping each of us up at night--fiscal irresponsibility, overreaching government, federal control of Utah's Education Trust Fund Lands and energy resources, and government corruption. More importantly, we will discuss the SOLUTION. We can not stress to you how important it is for you to attend and BRING A FRIEND! If we all work together, we can start changing our nation--one neighborhood at a time. Yes, YOU can make a difference!

More details coming soon! See you there!

Event Contact: 801-377-8224
David Kirkham

Event Coordinators:
David Kirkham, Utah Tea Party
Susan Southwick, Utah Tea Party
Brian Halladay, Utah County 912
Becky Pirente, Utah County 912
Jeff Moore, Davis County 912
Darcy Van Orden, Davis County 912
Michele LeMmon, Davis County 912
Larry Jensen, Salt Lake County 912
Kim Coleman, Salt Lake County 912
Tom Burton, Summit County 912
Jeff Marsh, Weber County 912

There was an additional series of e-mails on "Caucus Training Sessions" designed to train people how to most effectively influence the caucus meetings.