ARRRGH!

[Pheidippides]

According to the latest in evolutionary/kinematic research, a lot of knee problems can be explained by poor running form due to running shoes. Have you done much in the way of barefoot/thin-soled running? The idea is that your form will naturally fix itself if you don't have the cushioning, which prevents your feet from feeling the pain of bad form. It makes a lot of sense to me.

That having been said, you'd have to build up slowly to avoid stress fracture and to get your foot muscles in shape, which are probably week if you're like the average American. It also won't help if you've got something seriously wrong with your knee already.

According to my orthopedist, it's the reverse (i.e, the solution, not the cause - we all agree it's a running form issue). I pronate something fierce, so I have gone all the way to motion control shoes. It has helped for sure.

[woot]

According to my orthopedist, it's the reverse (i.e, the solution, not the cause - we all agree it's a running form issue). I pronate something fierce, so I have gone all the way to motion control shoes. It has helped for sure.

While extreme pronation is indeed a problem, a moderate degree of pronation is natural - its simply a way of spreading ground strike forces over your whole foot. This is pretty new stuff so I imagine there aren't too many docs that are hip to it yet.

It helps to remember that we evolved without shoes, and for much of our evolution it is clear that we were doing a lot of running. Granted, the surfaces would have been generally softer, but it still doesn't make sense to me to further constrict the movement of your feet, when they are so perfectly evolved to handle the strain of running without any cushioning. Your feet are among the most sensitive areas on your body, and the idea is that this is because they evolved to give strong feedback to how efficient your running style is. Shoes basically destroy that. There's a reason running injuries skyrocketed as soon as running shoes became popular and continue to go up with every new "advance" in running shoe technology.

Barefoot isn't a great idea for other reasons, but those Nike Frees or vibrams are appealing to me.

[Commando]

The more I read up on this, the more I think it's "just" simple ITBS. Symptoms match, pain matches.

I had this last year. I collapsed from pain getting into my car because of the weight on one leg/twisting motion. It's so weird-- the pain was so sharp I thought I had torn a ligament.

If you don't have a foam roller, I would get one. Lying on your side with the foam roller between your leg and the ground, working it all the way down can be agonizing, but I haven't had so much as even soreness since I stretched it out that way.

[bluegoose]

If you don't have a foam roller, I would get one. Lying on your side with the foam roller between your leg and the ground, working it all the way down can be agonizing, but I haven't had so much as even soreness since I stretched it out that way.

When I came down with my ITBS this summer and started doing foam rollers for myself, I was shocked at how freaking painful it was. I was almost in tears the first 3 or 4 times of doing it. It took about 2 weeks for the pain to become tolerable while on the roller, but doing that along with a bunch of other stuff took care of the problem very well.

[Pheidippides]

I had this last year. I collapsed from pain getting into my car because of the weight on one leg/twisting motion. It's so weird-- the pain was so sharp I thought I had torn a ligament.

If you don't have a foam roller, I would get one. Lying on your side with the foam roller between your leg and the ground, working it all the way down can be agonizing, but I haven't had so much as even soreness since I stretched it out that way.

When I came down with my ITBS this summer and started doing foam rollers for myself, I was shocked at how freaking painful it was. I was almost in tears the first 3 or 4 times of doing it. It took about 2 weeks for the pain to become tolerable while on the roller, but doing that along with a bunch of other stuff took care of the problem very well.

I have been doing foam rollers at the gym for a bit, but it's been irregular. I'm am going to make it a daily habit. And I agree with the assessment - it hurts!

[SteelBlue]

All of this reinforces the point that the toughest part of running a marathon is surviving the training.

[BigPiney]

66 and sunny here in Redding today. Should I check the help wanted ads for you to see what is available?

If the summers weren't so damn hot I would consider it. It is one of the few places where this are offices that I have thought about promoting to.

[SteelBlue]

If the summers weren't so damn hot I would consider it. It is one of the few places where this are offices that I have thought about promoting to.

I think you'd really like it here. It is ridiculously hot in the summer but there are a lot of fun ways to combat it. Two huge lakes, lots of nearby mountains to escape to and lots of swimming pools. Golf is cheap and there is a large cycling and running community. Real estate is cheap again too.

[Pheidippides]

I got a foam roller yesterday and spent the better part of two hours using it on and off (during the intermission times playing MW with the gang). My leg feels like a million bucks today. I'm going to try to run four miles this afternoon and see what that gets me.

[jxncoog]

Thanks for these, I'll include them in my warm up today and my pre-race routine tomorrow!

[Pheidippides]

Further update:

Today I did 18 at 9:19 per, which is perfect. The last mile I picked it up and did it at marathon pace. Knee feels great. I may be a masochist, but I live for those long runs. I get into a groove about mile 6, and then it is all Zen after that.

One more long one in two weeks, and then the taper. If I make that 20 miler, I'm home free.

[Pheidippides]

And my final update before the race itself:

I finished my last long run today - no pain other than your normal aches and pains. It's time to taper.

I am still not sure what I am going to run this marathon in - that's actually the trickiest part of my training. I'm going to run some figures on cowboy's excellent spreadsheet. I was pretty beat after the run today - those last six miles are going to be brutal. But I think today's run was the best training run I've had ever, so it feels like I'm peaking at the right time.

[John McClain]

Good luck to you Nikuman. I just got in from a run; dang it was cold. My exercise induced asthma kicked in because it was so cold and the wind was blowing into my face for the first part of the run. Unlike you, I am nowhere near marathon shape; but then again, I hit my peak fitness in the fall. This is the off season for me; so just getting out is gravy (and it's probably because I ate too much gravy that I needed to run today).

[Pheidippides]

Good luck to you Nikuman. I just got in from a run; dang it was cold. My exercise induced asthma kicked in because it was so cold and the wind was blowing into my face for the first part of the run. Unlike you, I am nowhere near marathon shape; but then again, I hit my peak fitness in the fall. This is the off season for me; so just getting out is gravy (and it's probably because I ate too much gravy that I needed to run today).

Thanks - and you rightly point out one of the great benefits of Houston: my season is year-round (although running in the summer can be brutal).

[Rosebud]

Good luck with your race Niku, I'm glad your knee is feeling better. And sorry.... you're going to have to hear from the dancer in me again.

Pronation is a common problem for dancers and (at least in the professional dance world) there are common exercises used to strengthen the supinators so that knees aren't injured and balance can be achieved. I'm actually kind of confused by the standard idea of labeling people who pronate as "pronators" as if there were nothing they can do to change the problem, but I guess the PTs/orthopedists I've visited specialize in a select group of people.

Anyway... if you'd visited a PT for dancers you would have been given a Theraband and a couple of exercises to strengthen your supinators along with rigid shoes. (I'd agree that inflexible shoes will help you with your pronating on a short term basis, but taking care of your problem will make it more likely that you'll be able to run until you're an old man. Besides, soft shoes are nice.)

Anyway.... I'm frustrated because I tried to google exercises to strengthen the supinators and found nothing. Evidently PTs for professional dancers really are as snooty as they act. Either my searches were lame or they don't want to share. And maybe I'm just being snooty, too, because I don't want to take the time to try to figure out how to explain how to solve the problem unless somebody is really interested (sorry).

IMO, pronation is common, but not normal.... I'm not sure if that even makes sense.