April 2020 General Conference - Global Pandemic Edition

[old_gregg]

So you think if the packaging is right, they will THEN believe in God? Man, God really sucked at packaging when he lost that 1/3 in heaven and all.

i think we could do better.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I agree with old_gregg, and I agree with you. They're in an impossible position, I think.

Part of the problem is that there is very little transparency about anything. I guess that's true about any large organization. I'm sure they understand some of the problems, but I'm also sure they get a big dose of their poo not stinking. For years there is nothing all that new from the prophet, and then a type-A gets the job and starts doing stuff. People get excited about a prophet that does prophety things. And then the big buildup for the best conference ever is a new logo and declaration that doesn't seem to shed any new light. Because nobody really knows what's going on behind the scenes, everyone's expectations are all over the map and lots of people are disappointed.

I just wish they would say what I think is *really* going on.
"We love you. Just like you, we're trying our best to figure out life. Just like you we make a lot of mistakes. But that's ok, we all live and hopefully learn. Let's work together and try and help each other get through life the best we can."

The perceived lack of transparency is also a factor, I think, and especially for those who are less inclined to just defer to authority.

[Brian]

I don't know. I was in a meeting with Elder Rasband, and he did a pretty good job of articulating the problems young people face today.

I'm curious now. What did he say?

[Brian]

I don't know. I was in a meeting with Elder Rasband, and he did a pretty good job of articulating the problems young people face today.

I agree with old_gregg, and I agree with you. They're in an impossible position, I think.

Part of the problem is that there is very little transparency about anything. I guess that's true about any large organization. I'm sure they understand some of the problems, but I'm also sure they get a big dose of their poo not stinking. For years there is nothing all that new from the prophet, and then a type-A gets the job and starts doing stuff. People get excited about a prophet that does prophety things. And then the big buildup for the best conference ever is a new logo and declaration that doesn't seem to shed any new light. Because nobody really knows what's going on behind the scenes, everyone's expectations are all over the map and lots of people are disappointed.

I just wish they would say what I think is *really* going on.
"We love you. Just like you, we're trying our best to figure out life. Just like you we make a lot of mistakes. But that's ok, we all live and hopefully learn. Let's work together and try and help each other get through life the best we can."

[Sleeping in EQ]

I've seen multiple people criticize the FP and Q12 as being "out of touch" and "insulated from the goings on of the real world" the past few days. My understanding is that these men travel more miles, visit more places on the planet, meet with more people of all ages, races, socio-economic, education, and other backgrounds, see more of governments and nations, discuss more problems, and understand the workings of the world more than 99.999% of other people on the planet.

Can someone explain to me what, exactly, makes them out of touch? Frankly, from my perspective the FP/Q12 seem way more in touch with the goings on of the real world than message board warriors who whine about the messages from the FP/Q12 not penetrating their own personal cocoon of expectations/desires.

Here's where I think the perception of them being out of touch comes from:

They play the "I have the answers" and "I have authority that you must respect" cards with great frequency. Some of this is people constantly looking to them for "the answers," but when a member of the LDS hierarchy is interacting with either faithful church members or through the media, it's inevitably from a position of, "What I'm saying is not just an opinion. I have authority and am a special emissary of Jesus Christ."

Whether they are at the special High Council Meeting for Stake Conference, are speaking at General Conference, or are just holding a press conference, they project these attributes.

The shadow side of these projections is that it can seem like they are poor listeners. The deep shadow side is that they can seem like they might not be listening to God.

Being expected to have answers, and having the faithful constantly deferring to their authority, can actually cultivate poor listening skills. So undoubtedly, some in the LDS hierarchy are poor listeners, and in that sense are out of touch, but that really isn't any different than it is for any position where someone is put on such a pedestal.

[LiveCoug]

We were all hoping for a return of Stake Roadshows so the disappointment is understandable.

Man, our roadshows were the best ever. Thanks Michael McClean!

[imanihonjin]

i take no offense at your disagreement; we all have different experiences that color our reads of situations. my experience, combined with my preference to attribute bad decisions in this case to sincere concern for but a disconnect with an audience (as opposed to what some might call callousness or even intentional cruelty) guide my conclusion. but, the proof is in the pudding: young people are apathetic or worse. something is broken.

So you think if the packaging is right, they will THEN believe in God? Man, God really sucked at packaging when he lost that 1/3 in heaven and all.

[Pelado]

I’m not a doubting Thomas. I found a lot of inspiration in the talks from this conference.

But there was a 6 month build up to this conference. We were told to expect historic things. This from a presidency who had already instituted some pretty big changes. And we got a logo, and a proclamation that’s basically reiterates what we have all been taught 1000 times, and a hosanna shout.

I may not be in tune enough to understand the bigger picture. Perhaps these changes are not for the benefit of the saints, but will have a big influence on those not currently of our faith. Could this pandemic trigger a reawakening throughout the world? Might these changes be timely to facilitate expansion of the gospel? I don’t know. This presidency certainly seems prescient with their home based worship initiative last year for where we are today.

Or maybe you OG is right. Currently, I’m about 60/40 on OG’s take. I guess that does make me a bit cynical.

The Hosanna shout was nbd, the proclamation was annoying in that not only was it not particularly interesting, my wife reminded it, emphasized how important it was because it's a proclamation, and made us all listen to it again.

[All-American]

April 2020 General Conference - Global Pandemic Edition

i take no offense at your disagreement; we all have different experiences that color our reads of situations. my experience, combined with my preference to attribute bad decisions in this case to sincere concern for but a disconnect with an audience (as opposed to what some might call callousness or even intentional cruelty) guide my conclusion. but, the proof is in the pudding: young people are apathetic or worse. something is broken.

Something is broken, but it goes well beyond church leaders, or even just our church, or even just churches. It’s Bowling Alone on meth out there.

[Crockett]

That's excellent advice and pretty much the roadmap for what kept me in the church.

It is great advice.

If you haven't already read it, you would probably like Bruce & Marie Hafen's recent (2018) book, Faith Is Not Blind. It's a short book. This advice reminds me of their observation of the "simplicity beyond complexity." The process of building faith usually begins with that faith being simplistic, untested, naive, and idealistic. At some point it becomes challenged and we uncover difficulties and complexities. We struggle with conflicts and uncertainty. Stage three, if you can get there, is back to a different type of simplicity that is beyond the complexity. It's an informed and tested faith that focuses on the important stuff. It's a mature simplicity. Anyhow, it struck a chord with me. Lots of other good stuff in this book, too.

[chrisrenrut]

I’m not a doubting Thomas. I found a lot of inspiration in the talks from this conference.

But there was a 6 month build up to this conference. We were told to expect historic things. This from a presidency who had already instituted some pretty big changes. And we got a logo, and a proclamation that’s basically reiterates what we have all been taught 1000 times, and a hosanna shout.

I may not be in tune enough to understand the bigger picture. Perhaps these changes are not for the benefit of the saints, but will have a big influence on those not currently of our faith. Could this pandemic trigger a reawakening throughout the world? Might these changes be timely to facilitate expansion of the gospel? I don’t know. This presidency certainly seems prescient with their home based worship initiative last year for where we are today.

Or maybe you OG is right. Currently, I’m about 60/40 on OG’s take. I guess that does make me a bit cynical.

[chrisrenrut]

I find myself contemplating either a longer fast or giving up something besides food.

If you want to increase sacrifice, I recommend giving up going to the bathroom.

[old_gregg]

I can understand why you think that is an accurate description of church leaders.

I do not.

i take no offense at your disagreement; we all have different experiences that color our reads of situations. my experience, combined with my preference to attribute bad decisions in this case to sincere concern for but a disconnect with an audience (as opposed to what some might call callousness or even intentional cruelty) guide my conclusion. but, the proof is in the pudding: young people are apathetic or worse. something is broken.

[All-American]

there's not really a way to say this without sounding like i'm throwing shade, and i truly am not, but here goes: you think a bunch of retired, geriatric white men, many of whom have spent the preceding decades in church administration rather than punching a clock (and a number of whom are ces lifers who never really participated in the workforce at all), flying on private planes to attend carefully curated social events sponsored by people whose goal it is to impress them (whether or not they're members), and then discussing their impressions from those carefully curated social events among themselves and with a staff of people who take below market compensation because of their sincerely held belief that they are furthering the work of god as filtered through the people they support, are connected with the struggles of the dead average american, much less the people on the margins of society (lgbtq+, intersectional minorities, women, addicts, etc.)? i disagree, and i think actions and policies bear that out.

I can understand why you think that is an accurate description of church leaders.

I do not.

[Bo Diddley]

there's not really a way to say this without sounding like i'm throwing shade, and i truly am not, but here goes: you think a bunch of retired, geriatric white men, many of whom have spent the preceding decades in church administration rather than punching a clock (and a number of whom are ces lifers who never really participated in the workforce at all), flying on private planes to attend carefully curated social events sponsored by people whose goal it is to impress them (whether or not they're members), and then discussing their impressions from those carefully curated social events among themselves and with a staff of people who take below market compensation because of their sincerely held belief that they are furthering the work of god as filtered through the people they support, are connected with the struggles of the dead average american, much less the people on the margins of society (lgbtq+, intersectional minorities, women, addicts, etc.)? i disagree, and i think actions and policies bear that out.

I don't know. I was in a meeting with Elder Rasband, and he did a pretty good job of articulating the problems young people face today.