April 2020 General Conference - Global Pandemic Edition

[tooblue]

It says a lot about how he got started out the gate that he can announce temples in Dubai and China, and the next day we are talking about being frustrated that the changes aren't earth-changing enough.

Agreed. It was an incredible moment when he announced those two temples, and explained exactly how the Shanghai temple would work.

[HBCoug]

I can't wait until our fast this Friday kills COVID-19 and you doubting Thomas types have to eat your words.

Fast 2.0: This time we're super cereal! Y'all basically ended the droughts in Australia a while back, so I have no doubt I'll be browsing CS back at work in no time.

[Walter Sobchak]

We were all hoping for a return of Stake Roadshows so the disappointment is understandable.

Amen! Are TV shows such as Dancing With The Stars, American Idol, et al popular with the youth? or should we stick with the Amish-themed trek?

[BigFatMeanie]

I've seen multiple people criticize the FP and Q12 as being "out of touch" and "insulated from the goings on of the real world" the past few days. My understanding is that these men travel more miles, visit more places on the planet, meet with more people of all ages, races, socio-economic, education, and other backgrounds, see more of governments and nations, discuss more problems, and understand the workings of the world more than 99.999% of other people on the planet.

Can someone explain to me what, exactly, makes them out of touch? Frankly, from my perspective the FP/Q12 seem way more in touch with the goings on of the real world than message board warriors who whine about the messages from the FP/Q12 not penetrating their own personal cocoon of expectations/desires.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I started reading this thread. This thread is boring.

[old_gregg]

I've seen multiple people criticize the FP and Q12 as being "out of touch" and "insulated from the goings on of the real world" the past few days. My understanding is that these men travel more miles, visit more places on the planet, meet with more people of all ages, races, socio-economic, education, and other backgrounds, see more of governments and nations, discuss more problems, and understand the workings of the world more than 99.999% of other people on the planet.

Can someone explain to me what, exactly, makes them out of touch? Frankly, from my perspective the FP/Q12 seem way more in touch with the goings on of the real world than message board warriors who whine about the messages from the FP/Q12 not penetrating their own personal cocoon of expectations/desires.

there's not really a way to say this without sounding like i'm throwing shade, and i truly am not, but here goes: you think a bunch of retired, geriatric white men, many of whom have spent the preceding decades in church administration rather than punching a clock (and a number of whom are ces lifers who never really participated in the workforce at all), flying on private planes to attend carefully curated social events sponsored by people whose goal it is to impress them (whether or not they're members), and then discussing their impressions from those carefully curated social events among themselves and with a staff of people who take below market compensation because of their sincerely held belief that they are furthering the work of god as filtered through the people they support, are connected with the struggles of the dead average american, much less the people on the margins of society (lgbtq+, intersectional minorities, women, addicts, etc.)? i disagree, and i think actions and policies bear that out.

[Bo Diddley]

there's not really a way to say this without sounding like i'm throwing shade, and i truly am not, but here goes: you think a bunch of retired, geriatric white men, many of whom have spent the preceding decades in church administration rather than punching a clock (and a number of whom are ces lifers who never really participated in the workforce at all), flying on private planes to attend carefully curated social events sponsored by people whose goal it is to impress them (whether or not they're members), and then discussing their impressions from those carefully curated social events among themselves and with a staff of people who take below market compensation because of their sincerely held belief that they are furthering the work of god as filtered through the people they support, are connected with the struggles of the dead average american, much less the people on the margins of society (lgbtq+, intersectional minorities, women, addicts, etc.)? i disagree, and i think actions and policies bear that out.

I don't know. I was in a meeting with Elder Rasband, and he did a pretty good job of articulating the problems young people face today.

[All-American]

there's not really a way to say this without sounding like i'm throwing shade, and i truly am not, but here goes: you think a bunch of retired, geriatric white men, many of whom have spent the preceding decades in church administration rather than punching a clock (and a number of whom are ces lifers who never really participated in the workforce at all), flying on private planes to attend carefully curated social events sponsored by people whose goal it is to impress them (whether or not they're members), and then discussing their impressions from those carefully curated social events among themselves and with a staff of people who take below market compensation because of their sincerely held belief that they are furthering the work of god as filtered through the people they support, are connected with the struggles of the dead average american, much less the people on the margins of society (lgbtq+, intersectional minorities, women, addicts, etc.)? i disagree, and i think actions and policies bear that out.

I can understand why you think that is an accurate description of church leaders.

I do not.

[old_gregg]

I can understand why you think that is an accurate description of church leaders.

I do not.

i take no offense at your disagreement; we all have different experiences that color our reads of situations. my experience, combined with my preference to attribute bad decisions in this case to sincere concern for but a disconnect with an audience (as opposed to what some might call callousness or even intentional cruelty) guide my conclusion. but, the proof is in the pudding: young people are apathetic or worse. something is broken.

[chrisrenrut]

I find myself contemplating either a longer fast or giving up something besides food.

If you want to increase sacrifice, I recommend giving up going to the bathroom.

[chrisrenrut]

I’m not a doubting Thomas. I found a lot of inspiration in the talks from this conference.

But there was a 6 month build up to this conference. We were told to expect historic things. This from a presidency who had already instituted some pretty big changes. And we got a logo, and a proclamation that’s basically reiterates what we have all been taught 1000 times, and a hosanna shout.

I may not be in tune enough to understand the bigger picture. Perhaps these changes are not for the benefit of the saints, but will have a big influence on those not currently of our faith. Could this pandemic trigger a reawakening throughout the world? Might these changes be timely to facilitate expansion of the gospel? I don’t know. This presidency certainly seems prescient with their home based worship initiative last year for where we are today.

Or maybe you OG is right. Currently, I’m about 60/40 on OG’s take. I guess that does make me a bit cynical.

[Crockett]

That's excellent advice and pretty much the roadmap for what kept me in the church.

It is great advice.

If you haven't already read it, you would probably like Bruce & Marie Hafen's recent (2018) book, Faith Is Not Blind. It's a short book. This advice reminds me of their observation of the "simplicity beyond complexity." The process of building faith usually begins with that faith being simplistic, untested, naive, and idealistic. At some point it becomes challenged and we uncover difficulties and complexities. We struggle with conflicts and uncertainty. Stage three, if you can get there, is back to a different type of simplicity that is beyond the complexity. It's an informed and tested faith that focuses on the important stuff. It's a mature simplicity. Anyhow, it struck a chord with me. Lots of other good stuff in this book, too.

[All-American]

April 2020 General Conference - Global Pandemic Edition

i take no offense at your disagreement; we all have different experiences that color our reads of situations. my experience, combined with my preference to attribute bad decisions in this case to sincere concern for but a disconnect with an audience (as opposed to what some might call callousness or even intentional cruelty) guide my conclusion. but, the proof is in the pudding: young people are apathetic or worse. something is broken.

Something is broken, but it goes well beyond church leaders, or even just our church, or even just churches. It’s Bowling Alone on meth out there.

[Pelado]

I’m not a doubting Thomas. I found a lot of inspiration in the talks from this conference.

But there was a 6 month build up to this conference. We were told to expect historic things. This from a presidency who had already instituted some pretty big changes. And we got a logo, and a proclamation that’s basically reiterates what we have all been taught 1000 times, and a hosanna shout.

I may not be in tune enough to understand the bigger picture. Perhaps these changes are not for the benefit of the saints, but will have a big influence on those not currently of our faith. Could this pandemic trigger a reawakening throughout the world? Might these changes be timely to facilitate expansion of the gospel? I don’t know. This presidency certainly seems prescient with their home based worship initiative last year for where we are today.

Or maybe you OG is right. Currently, I’m about 60/40 on OG’s take. I guess that does make me a bit cynical.

The Hosanna shout was nbd, the proclamation was annoying in that not only was it not particularly interesting, my wife reminded it, emphasized how important it was because it's a proclamation, and made us all listen to it again.

[imanihonjin]

i take no offense at your disagreement; we all have different experiences that color our reads of situations. my experience, combined with my preference to attribute bad decisions in this case to sincere concern for but a disconnect with an audience (as opposed to what some might call callousness or even intentional cruelty) guide my conclusion. but, the proof is in the pudding: young people are apathetic or worse. something is broken.

So you think if the packaging is right, they will THEN believe in God? Man, God really sucked at packaging when he lost that 1/3 in heaven and all.