Whistleblower - Ensign Peak Advisors

[MartyFunkhouser]

Provo Towne Center mall is a ghost town. Can't imagine it will stay open much longer.

I remember when the Provo Towne Center opened everyone thought the University Mall was going to go under.

[falafel]

What's so bizarre about the investment in City Creek is that it was replacing a dead mall (wasn't the Zion mall there?) and that it was being done at the same time the Gateway (a mall that was barely a decade old) was in the news for being a dying mall overrun with homeless people. Did we really think a mall was what we needed?

Crossroads.

[Donuthole]

Provo Towne Center mall is a ghost town. Can't imagine it will stay open much longer.

What's so bizarre about the investment in City Creek is that it was replacing a dead mall (wasn't the Zion mall there?) and that it was being done at the same time the Gateway (a mall that was barely a decade old) was in the news for being a dying mall overrun with homeless people. Did we really think a mall was what we needed?

[Green Monstah]

I appreciate tooblue's info on the fact that the church is doing much more than $60mm worth of humanitarian work worldwide.

But with the Church's prudence and cheap labor/missionary force they could start allocating multiple billions per year to alleviating human suffering and be potentially the greatest force for good on the earth today--without cutting into the corpus of their holdings. And maybe that is the idea--build such a formidable cache of resources that we're able to step up and do what no other organization can do when the time arises.

But as was said before, optically, it's easy to let your imagination run wild envisioning President Nelson skiing down the slopes of the church's mountains of gold, Scrooge McDuck style.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Off topic, but I haven't been around downtown San Diego for quite a while -- any time spent in San Diego has been at the zoo, Mission Beach or around the La Jolla area. Back between 89-91, I used to go to the Holiday Bowl every year and stay at the downtown Marriott. I believe Horton Plaza was in that immediate area. At the time, Horton Plaza was quite unique and seemed to be quite busy. For some reason, I decided to look up Horton Plaza and found out the place is now a ghost town.

Unless downtown San Diego in general is significantly more of a dump than it was circa 1990, it seems to me that if a place like Horton Plaza is about to go belly-up, it's just a matter of time for a place like City Creek.

Provo Towne Center mall is a ghost town. Can't imagine it will stay open much longer.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Thankfully the church invested in City Creek as a hedge against the terrible optics.

Yes, they are following Luke 12:16-21.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

retail investments...as one who works for a firm that is closing most of the retail establishments worldwide my view is that this this probably wasn't a great long-term fiscal decision. Good thing there are plenty of reserves!

Off topic, but I haven't been around downtown San Diego for quite a while -- any time spent in San Diego has been at the zoo, Mission Beach or around the La Jolla area. Back between 89-91, I used to go to the Holiday Bowl every year and stay at the downtown Marriott. I believe Horton Plaza was in that immediate area. At the time, Horton Plaza was quite unique and seemed to be quite busy. For some reason, I decided to look up Horton Plaza and found out the place is now a ghost town.

Unless downtown San Diego in general is significantly more of a dump than it was circa 1990, it seems to me that if a place like Horton Plaza is about to go belly-up, it's just a matter of time for a place like City Creek.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

retail investments...as one who works for a firm that is closing most of the retail establishments worldwide my view is that this this probably wasn't a great long-term fiscal decision. Good thing there are plenty of reserves!

Financially, I think it was a terrible investment too.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Thankfully the church invested in City Creek as a hedge against the terrible optics.

OK, that was funny.

[Flystripper]

Thankfully the church invested in City Creek as a hedge against the terrible optics.

retail investments...as one who works for a firm that is closing most of the retail establishments worldwide my view is that this this probably wasn't a great long-term fiscal decision. Good thing there are plenty of reserves!

[Color Me Badd Fan]

The optics of this are terrible, and not just for people who buy into Matt. 6:19.

Thankfully the church invested in City Creek as a hedge against the terrible optics.

[tooblue]

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. And is probably why you see so many different numbers. Folks are probably making wild guesses.

Perhaps my posts came across as rude. The aim of my tone is bluntness. I get very frustrated with this idea that the church is hoarding money and that there is no transparency. Information is available via the provident living Web site. Hades, if you want to find a Bishops' storehouse near you it's no more complicated than finding a chapel near you:

https://providentliving.churchofjesu...ation?lang=eng

Beyond chapels, temples and universities the church has invested in and built a remarkable distribution infrastructure that must be annually maintained. What can't be provided by its network of farms and canning facilities is bought in bulk by the church to be distributed by a storehouse. Everyday items such as deodorant, soap, diapers, toiletries, shampoo, tampons/pads etc. are available to members in need throughout North America. This is all supported by distribution networks that include warehouses and shipping facilities. Where does the money come from to maintain these facilities, fleets of trucks, drivers, managers etc.?

This is in addition to all of the other services available to members: counselling, legal aid, employment services etc. For me personally, if being asked to clean the chapel once or twice a year means the church can hire and pay more counsellors to meet with people with serious mental issues that a Lay Bishop is not trained to adequately help, I am all for it. Hades, I will clean the chapel once a month if I need to.

How do I know all this? I served as a Bishop (outside of the US), and my wife is currently the Relief Society President. I have immediate family that is currently meeting with a counsellor from LDS family services. There are two young adult members of my congregation currently serving Service Missions.

What's more, I haven't even addressed the same infrastructure that exists in Europe. I personally know one individual who works for the church as an LDS family services counsellor. The individual speaks Spanish, French and German fluently. Her spouse is the Bishop of a European Ward. We're close friends and have compared notes. Also consider that the same infrastructure that has been built up over 30, 40, 50, 80 years in North America is also being built in South America, Africa, Asia, Australia ...

The money is being spent wisely.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yep.

Dude, you could do a whole season of podcasts on this issue alone.

[Moliere]

My issue: there is so much good that could be done by utilizing the income from $100B. $60mm per year seems woefully low in humanitarian aid when you can make over 100x that annually in new excess tithes and interest earned.

Yep.

[Jeff Lebowski]

No, it does not. That is part of the churches infrastructure that must be maintained annually, in addition to its buildings etc. The infrastructure includes services such as:

Bishops' Storehouses
Development Counseling Services
Home Storage Centers
Immigrant Services
Family Services
Self-Reliance Services

https://providentliving.churchofjesu....org/?lang=eng

40 or 60 million goes to other entities with their own infrastructure.

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. And is probably why you see so many different numbers. Folks are probably making wild guesses.