general conference april 2019

[Green Monstah]

His talk wasn't intended to squash socializing, rather he extolled our collectively ability to socialize and connect with others. What is he asking for, and rightfully so considering the condensed meeting format, was to focus our sacrament service on the sacrament; to stop spending time with announcements no one listens and that can be found in a the program or on social media, to and get directly to renewing our covenants and edifying one another in a reverent sacred manner.

Every Sunday our Ward starts as a Branch and ends as a Ward. It boggles my mind. How hard is it to get to church on time? How hard is it to get there early if you want to socialize? Why can't people socialize after the two hour block is done—why are people in such a rush to leave when just a few months earlier everyone was there for three hours anyways?

Per my experience, such irreverent behaviour isn't tolerated in any other facet of life where there is formal structure put in place to indicate when a meeting starts and ends, and how it is conducted. Do you law types criticize judges for demanding a certain reverence in the courtroom, or amongst yourselves during a deposition? I guarantee you likely still charge a client for your time if they are late to a meeting with you.

This Web site is the only place where I regularly encounter lawyers, so ...

I'm not a trial attorney, but people behave in court because they can be punished for acting out of order. Also, they're typically either compelled (whether by law or self interest) to appear in court. Church is voluntary.

As a parent of five kids, young and old, and a person with friends who try their damnedest to do what the prophets advise and popped out babies in a condensed period of time, I don't think it's quite so simple as "show up early, shut your piehole (and your kids' pieholes), dressed in your Sunday best."

For some, church is seamless and simple. That's fantastic for them. For others, it's an extremely stressful and exhausting time of the week. Dragging kids out of bed, finding church clothes, ignoring complaints that "Church sucks," being on time, sitting silently, etc. If I took my kid to the foyer every time he misbehaved, neither of us would ever be in sacrament meeting, and he would exploit it. I keep tabs on the volume, and will rearrange where kids sit if necessary.

I'm sure Holland's heart was in a good place, but what he did was make Sunday mornings even more stressful, with even more guilt for families that struggle with Sundays (speaking of which, Tad Callister's take on guilt is complete and utter bullshit!).

[Sullyute]

...to stop spending time with announcements no one listens and that can be found in a the program or on social media...

I don’t really get the whole no announcement agenda the church is on. The two minutes (max) that it takes to remind people of up coming events (ward conference, ward temple night, youth activities, linger longers, etc) doesn’t diminish the meeting in any way. I think it is strange.

[Walter Sobchak]

His talk wasn't intended to squash socializing, rather he extolled our collectively ability to socialize and connect with others. What is he asking for, and rightfully so considering the condensed meeting format, was to focus our sacrament service on the sacrament; to stop spending time with announcements no one listens and that can be found in a the program or on social media, to and get directly to renewing our covenants and edifying one another in a reverent sacred manner.

Every Sunday our Ward starts as a Branch and ends as a Ward. It boggles my mind. How hard is it to get to church on time? How hard is it to get there early if you want to socialize? Why can't people socialize after the two hour block is done—why are people in such a rush to leave when just a few months earlier everyone was there for three hours anyways?

Per my experience, such irreverent behaviour isn't tolerated in any other facet of life where there is formal structure put in place to indicate when a meeting starts and ends, and how it is conducted. Do you law types criticize judges for demanding a certain reverence in the courtroom, or amongst yourselves during a deposition? I guarantee you likely still charge a client for your time if they are late to a meeting with you.

This Web site is the only place where I regularly encounter lawyers, so ...

We've got a live one here.

[Moliere]

His talk wasn't intended to squash socializing, rather he extolled our collectively ability to socialize and connect with others. What is he asking for, and rightfully so considering the condensed meeting format, was to focus our sacrament service on the sacrament; to stop spending time with announcements no one listens and that can be found in a the program or on social media, to and get directly to renewing our covenants and edifying one another in a reverent sacred manner.

Every Sunday our Ward starts as a Branch and ends as a Ward. It boggles my mind. How hard is it to get to church on time? How hard is it to get there early if you want to socialize? Why can't people socialize after the two hour block is done—why are people in such a rush to leave when just a few months earlier everyone was there for three hours anyways?

Per my experience, such irreverent behaviour isn't tolerated in any other facet of life where there is formal structure put in place to indicate when a meeting starts and ends, and how it is conducted. Do you law types criticize judges for demanding a certain reverence in the courtroom, or amongst yourselves during a deposition? I guarantee you likely still charge a client for your time if they are late to a meeting with you.

This Web site is the only place where I regularly encounter lawyers, so ...

Being on time is an issue. My family is rarely late and is often at church five minutes early. My current ward is the best ward I’ve seen at being on time, but it’s still an issue. None of us have to travel far, but it’s always interesting to me that when I attend church in Utah (parents or siblings wards) a large portion of the congregation is late and they have a two minute drive to the church.

Part of me also wonders if Holland has forgotten what it’s like to have small kids in church. He’s entering the old person phase where he remembers his kids being quiet and reverent unlike all the you families kids today. Best to just ignore his specifics and continue to do our best to keep our family reverent.

[Surfah]

Good hell I kind of agree with TB here. Grrrr. Why are everyone's garments in a twist over this?

Sacrament is only an hour. It's a meeting to worship and participate in a sacred ordinance. I have no problem with him mildly rebuking members for treating it so casually. Why should we not be encouraged to bring our best before the Lord as we share a covenant meal with Him and be reprimanded when we do not? Particularly for the serial offenders. Hell, Gidget is one of them. I hope she was listening.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Good hell I kind of after with TB here. Grrrr. Why are everyone's garments in a twist over this?

Sacrament is only an hour. It's a meeting to worship and participate in a sacred ordinance. I have no problem with him mildly rebuking members for treating it so casually. Why should we not be encouraged to bring our best before the Lord as we share a covenant meal with Him and be reprimanded when we do not? Particularly for the serial offenders. Hell, Gidget is one of them. I hope she was listening.

I knew a family that was always chronically late for church. 10-15 minutes every week. They lived a half a block from the church but they still loaded up the suburban and drove and then circled around finding a parking spot. Always cracked me up.

I thought JRH's talk was fine.

[Green Monstah]

Good hell I kind of after with TB here. Grrrr. Why are everyone's garments in a twist over this?

Sacrament is only an hour. It's a meeting to worship and participate in a sacred ordinance. I have no problem with him mildly rebuking members for treating it so casually. Why should we not be encouraged to bring our best before the Lord as we share a covenant meal with Him and be reprimanded when we do not? Particularly for the serial offenders. Hell, Gidget is one of them. I hope she was listening.

I think in the end, it just won't be helpful and it will likely do some harm. He tried to temper his talk with some humor, but ultimately, I think it just adds more stress and guilt. No one likes to be stressed or guilty.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think in the end, it just won't be helpful and it will likely do some harm. He tried to temper his talk with some humor, but ultimately, I think it just adds more stress and guilt. No one likes to be stressed or guilty.

That's kind of funny. Heaven forbid we feel guilty about anything at church!

Wait until you read RMN's talk in the priesthood session.

[tooblue]

I'm not a trial attorney, but people behave in court because they can be punished for acting out of order. Also, they're typically either compelled (whether by law or self interest) to appear in court. Church is voluntary.

As a parent of five kids, young and old, and a person with friends who try their damnedest to do what the prophets advise and popped out babies in a condensed period of time, I don't think it's quite so simple as "show up early, shut your piehole (and your kids' pieholes), dressed in your Sunday best."

For some, church is seamless and simple. That's fantastic for them. For others, it's an extremely stressful and exhausting time of the week. Dragging kids out of bed, finding church clothes, ignoring complaints that "Church sucks," being on time, sitting silently, etc. If I took my kid to the foyer every time he misbehaved, neither of us would ever be in sacrament meeting, and he would exploit it. I keep tabs on the volume, and will rearrange where kids sit if necessary.

I'm sure Holland's heart was in a good place, but what he did was make Sunday mornings even more stressful, with even more guilt for families that struggle with Sundays (speaking of which, Tad Callister's take on guilt is complete and utter bullshit!).

I don't know a single person for whom church is simple and seamless. I have five children, two of which are now married, one on a mission and the last two are still at home. I spent a lot of time in the foyer when they were young. I have heard the refrain, "this sucks, I'm tired, I don't wanna do this or that," and the interesting thing is I guarantee you Elder Holland experienced all of that himself as a young father.

Personally, I found comfort in both talks by both individuals mentioned. Neither of them made me feel guilty, nor did I feel they were intended to elicit feelings of guilt. I can't speak to your family dynamic but it is unkind to believe I, or Elder Holland can't empathize and that their talks were at best demonstrative of a "heart in a good place," or worse bull crap. In light of the current changes to the two hour block Holland's talk is timely and on point.

[tooblue]

Being on time is an issue. My family is rarely late and is often at church five minutes early. My current ward is the best ward I’ve seen at being on time, but it’s still an issue. None of us have to travel far, but it’s always interesting to me that when I attend church in Utah (parents or siblings wards) a large portion of the congregation is late and they have a two minute drive to the church.

Part of me also wonders if Holland has forgotten what it’s like to have small kids in church. He’s entering the old person phase where he remembers his kids being quiet and reverent unlike all the you families kids today. Best to just ignore his specifics and continue to do our best to keep our family reverent.

I don't know that he has forgotten, but I felt his talk was directed as much or even more at Bishoprics than to the members in general. Too much time is spent needlessly going over announcements etc. and not enough time is left for fellow members to teach the gospel through their talks.

I absolutely agree with your last sentence—I am certain Elder Holland feels the same way.

[Green Monstah]

That's kind of funny. Heaven forbid we feel guilty about anything at church!

Wait until you read RMN's talk in the priesthood session.

There's enough to feel guilty about at church. No need to pile on over sunday attire and reverence Nazism.

I usually avoid watching general conference, because I get the distinct impression that folks like me aren't really wanted. Tolerated? Sure, but the GAs and GOs make it clear that folks seeking the middle way aren't an asset to the Church.

And I tend to be hypercritical. A bad combo.

[LVAllen]

I don't know that he has forgotten, but I felt his talk was directed as much or even more to Bishoprics than to the members in general. Too much time is spent needlessly going over announcements etc. and not enough time is left for fellow members to teach the gospel through their talks.

I absolutely agree with your last sentence—I am certain Elder Holland feels the same way.

Frequently, that's not a bug, it's a feature.

I'd comment more on JRH's talk, but I didn't hear much of it. Kids were being noisy.

[Sullyute]

I knew a family that was always chronically late for church. 10-15 minutes every week. They lived a half a block from the church but they still loaded up the suburban and drove and then circled around finding a parking spot. Always cracked me up.

I thought JRH's talk was fine.

How would you know unless you were late too? Gotcha!

[Northwestcoug]

Frequently, that's not a bug, it's a feature.

I'd comment more on JRH's talk, but I didn't hear much of it. Kids were being noisy.

Well I hope you were in the foyer!

[CardiacCoug]

Being on time is an issue. My family is rarely late and is often at church five minutes early. My current ward is the best ward I’ve seen at being on time, but it’s still an issue. None of us have to travel far, but it’s always interesting to me that when I attend church in Utah (parents or siblings wards) a large portion of the congregation is late and they have a two minute drive to the church.

Part of me also wonders if Holland has forgotten what it’s like to have small kids in church. He’s entering the old person phase where he remembers his kids being quiet and reverent unlike all the you families kids today. Best to just ignore his specifics and continue to do our best to keep our family reverent.

I think I’ve ranted here before about the dozen or so people each week who show up after the bread and before the water and make the deacons go back and get the bread so they can get both halves of the sacrament.

Being late for church when you are just sitting at home before church and live a block away is so freaking lame.