I like being Mormon

[SeattleUte]

Faith may very well be a form of reason. In a sense, it's a reasoned admission that our intellectual or physical capabilities are insufficient to resolve a given problem. We reason to rely that some other resolution exists of which we are not aware.

I love faith; I have lived without Mormonism for some time but I could never live without faith.

Faith is a very abused word. The kind of faith that gets you to the top of Everest, keeps a pitcher bagging outs on the way to that no hitter, brings an enrepreneur from college drop out to the top of the business world, or drives a hack to write a terrific novel is not the same thing religion asks of you. I really get sick of how that word gets thrown around. It's newspeak.

[Viking]

Faith is a very abused word. The kind of faith that gets you to the top of Everest, keeps a pitcher bagging outs on the way to that no hitter, brings an enrepreneur from college drop out to the top of the business world, or drives a hack to write a terrific novel is not the same think religion asks of you. I really get sick of how that word gets thrown around. It's newspeak.

I think you're trying to say that faith without works is dead, now aren't you, you closet mormonophile!

[il Padrino Ute]

Faith is a very abused word. The kind of faith that gets you to the top of Everest, keeps a pitcher bagging outs on the way to that no hitter, brings an enrepreneur from college drop out to the top of the business world, or drives a hack to write a terrific novel is not the same thing religion asks of you. I really get sick of how that word gets thrown around. It's newspeak.

Then what would you call it?

[RobinFinderson]

Faith may very well be a form of reason. In a sense, it's a reasoned admission that our intellectual or physical capabilities are insufficient to resolve a given problem. We reason to rely that some other resolution exists of which we are not aware.

I'm up with you until the point in bold. Then everything falls apart. Sure, we can recognize that we don't know everything, but then why not jump to any old conclusion and believe some random thing? Why? Because someone planted the Mormon seeds in your head. Mormoness doesn't just pop into people's heads as a sound explanation for Life the Universe and Everything. Mormons don't spontaneously appear on deserted islands. It happens when other people interpret the individual's experience for him in ways that seem more romantic, more exciting, or more true than one's own view of things. That is parental inculcation and the missionary program.

Now I'll play the devil's advocate (I'm still feeling slighted because folks thought I couldn't be the anti-christ). There was a decent period of time when Mormon romanticism really offered a compelling treat to all kinds of people. The chance to be part of something way bigger than one's self, out on the frontier. I can understand the appeal. But what does the church have anymore? A bunch of old white leaders who don't know which way the wind is blowing. A priesthood authority for people who want to obey prophets that hold higher authority. A 'lay clergy' that too often doubles as a petty social hierarchy. Long meetings with no coffee. Celestial polygamy. Exclusion of women from the priesthood. The list goes on and on and on.

I can understand why people who are born into the story decide to stay. I can understand why a young man or woman might go along with the church to marry a Mormon. I can understand a lot of reasons why someone might find him or herself in the church. But I can't see for the life of me what about the Mormon narrative anyone will find so compelling that they would overlook the list of horrors above. Are missionaries having a harder time these days? Mormonism just seems so anachronistic.

[Fiyero]

So faith is something that exists in the mind? So brain damage can physically destroy one's faith?

I know a girl who underwent electro-shock therapy, but things went wrong and it essentially jump-started her brain. She can't remember a thing from before that moment, lying on the table. To her, that moment was her birth. Her college degree instantly became worthless; everything she taught on her mission became void. Over the years she slowly gained a testimony a second time.

[JohnnyLingo]

I know a girl who underwent electro-shock therapy, but things went wrong and it essentially jump-started her brain. She can't remember a thing from before that moment, lying on the table. To her, that was her birth. Her college degree instantly became worthless; everything she taught on her mission became void. Over the years she slowly gained a testimony a second time.

I would never, ever submit to electroshock therapy. Ever. What scientific basis is there for the practice? Sending electric jolts through someone's brain to "fix" them seems to be about the same as hitting someone's chest with a sledgehammer to cure them of lung cancer.

[SoonerCoug]

I know a girl who underwent electro-shock therapy, but things went wrong and it essentially jump-started her brain. She can't remember a thing from before that moment, lying on the table. To her, that was her birth. Her college degree instantly became worthless; everything she taught on her mission became void. Over the years she slowly gained a testimony a second time.

That's interesting. I think electroshock is most famous for causing temporary anterograde memory loss (short-term memory loss). I got to watch it a few times and thought it was really interesting. It's very effective too. I just hadn't ever heard of such profound amnesia as you describe. I'd think that might be reportable.

[Fiyero]

At first I thought she was a very weird girl, who would ask the most elementary questions. Then I learned she was living at home (at age 29) and figured she was special. Then one day she got up in testimony meeting and explained her story, how she doesn't remember anything from her mission journal or memories when she sees photos. She doesn't know why she believed what she believed then, but bore testimony of why she believes now.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Häagen-Dazs makes a Banana Split flavor that I like.

[RobinFinderson]

I'm up with you until the point in bold. Then everything falls apart. Sure, we can recognize that we don't know everything, but then why not jump to any old conclusion and believe some random thing? Why? Because someone planted the Mormon seeds in your head. Mormoness doesn't just pop into people's heads as a sound explanation for Life the Universe and Everything. Mormons don't spontaneously appear on deserted islands. It happens when other people interpret the individual's experience for him in ways that seem more romantic, more exciting, or more true than one's own view of things. That is parental inculcation and the missionary program.

Now I'll play the devil's advocate (I'm still feeling slighted because folks thought I couldn't be the anti-christ). There was a decent period of time when Mormon romanticism really offered a compelling treat to all kinds of people. The chance to be part of something way bigger than one's self, out on the frontier. I can understand the appeal. But what does the church have anymore? A bunch of old white leaders who don't know which way the wind is blowing. A priesthood authority for people who want to obey prophets that hold higher authority. A 'lay clergy' that too often doubles as a petty social hierarchy. Long meetings with no coffee. Celestial polygamy. Exclusion of women from the priesthood. The list goes on and on and on.

I can understand why people who are born into the story decide to stay. I can understand why a young man or woman might go along with the church to marry a Mormon. I can understand a lot of reasons why someone might find him or herself in the church. But I can't see for the life of me what about the Mormon narrative anyone will find so compelling that they would overlook the list of horrors above. Are missionaries having a harder time these days? Mormonism just seems so anachronistic.

Booooo! This was a good Troll post. Your silence speaks volumes! Boooo!

[Art Vandelay]

I thought I would resurrect one of my first CUF posts and add: I like general conference and look forward to watching it every spring and fall.

[LA Ute]

I thought I would resurrect one of my first CUF posts and add: I like general conference and look forward to watching it every spring and fall.

I do too. I also like to listen to recordings of selected talks while I'm out walking. I listened to the Holland, Scott and Cook talks this morning (I missed the Saturday afternoon session). I zoned out during part of PH meeting and will listen to those talks soon. Good stuff.

[chrisrenrut]

I do this on my commute to and from work. I can usually listen to at least one talk each way.

I bet even the most jaded apostate would agree that it beats sports radio in SLC.

[wally]

I like being more man than the rest of you.

[creekster]

I like being more man than the rest of you.

This is neither well-reasoned nor persuasive. Thus, zero respect.