Does porn = adultery?

[wuapinmon]

Clearly I need to stop giving my attempts at irony a test drive. It's late, and I am losing it. Now I've annoyed both you and Rosebud, two of my faves here.

All I meant was that we need to think about forgiveness before divorce. I was needlessly . . . opaque in saying so, however. ¿Se usa la palabra chambón en Costa Rica? ¡Porque eso, si, que yo soy!

I thought it was funny, just pointing out that it might not get the hoped for response. You can tell when I'm annoyed because I get very pedantic and self-righteous and I start cussing.

[statman]

Nice insertion of "daily", which was not MRD's point at all. There are plenty of counselors that would advise the use of porn on occasion.

Including some who work for LDS Social Services. I know of two cases where couples sought marriage counseling through LDSSS, and came away with advice to get a porn stash and other 'marital aids'. The issue in both those cases was wives with virtually no sex drive. These little helpers did the trick...

[SoCalCoug]

Including some who work for LDS Social Services. I know of two cases where couples sought marriage counseling through LDSSS, and came away with advice to get a porn stash and other 'marital aids'. The issue in both those cases was wives with virtually no sex drive. These little helpers did the trick...

Just to confirm - that is, indeed, porn "stash" and not porn "'stache" right?

[statman]

Just to confirm - that is, indeed, porn "stash" and not porn "'stache" right?

<chuckle> - correct. No porn-staches on any of the four members of the two couples I know.

And also to clarify, the porn they were supposed to go out and buy was 'prescription porn' - put out by some sex-ed institute. (Sorry, no idea what they're called - someone with a marriage counseling gig could probably tell you!) From what they told my wife and I about them, they're 'tastefully done,' but still show all the details. And there are different videos for different issues - everything from basic how-to videos to how-to-enjoy-sex-when-you've-got-a-bad-back-and-can-barely-move videos.

Also for full disclosure - one of the couples still uses the videos and have for 15+ years. The other couple decided it wasn't for them and went the drug route to increase the wife's libido (small doses of testosterone).

[wuapinmon]

<chuckle> - correct. No porn-staches on any of the four members of the two couples I know.

And also to clarify, the porn they were supposed to go out and buy was 'prescription porn' - put out by some sex-ed institute. (Sorry, no idea what they're called - someone with a marriage counseling gig could probably tell you!) From what they told my wife and I about them, they're 'tastefully done,' but still show all the details. And there are different videos for different issues - everything from basic how-to videos to how-to-enjoy-sex-when-you've-got-a-bad-back-and-can-barely-move videos.

Also for full disclosure - one of the couples still uses the videos and have for 15+ years. The other couple decided it wasn't for them and went the drug route to increase the wife's libido (small doses of testosterone).

How safe is that?

[statman]

How safe is that?

I couldn't quote you stats re its safety, but I can tell you it's pretty regularly prescribed for women to increase their sex-drive - especially in post menopausal women or women taking specific birth control pills that decrease all sex hormones dramtically - both "male" and "female" hormones.

The key is 'low dose' - they're not taking steroid injections. They're using a cream (or a patch?) that increase testosterone levels by a small amount over a relatively short period of time.

For post menopausal women, hormone replacement therapy used to be all about estrogen & progesterone. Now it's about both estrogen, progesterone and testosterone...

[SoCalCoug]

How safe is that?

Don't know, but she just qualified for the olympics as a sprinter.

[Art Vandelay]

I finally plowed through this interesting but long thread. SIEQ did not receive nearly enough credit for one of the best explanations I have ever read on the subject. With his permissin I would like to quote his post outside of this forum.

I have often pondered if I was given the power to change laws, as a dictator or a Supreme Court Justice would I automatically assume what is best for me is best for all? I do mental gymnastics in that regard to pornography, abortion and even gay marriage and change my opinions as often as SU fires Salvadorian maids. Thankfully for all I'm not and likely will never be in a position to have even moderate control over these social issues.

I have always had trouble with several relatively common (at least where I was raised) lessons taught in church- "If you drink you will become an alcoholic, or kill someone while driving", "If you have sex you will become pregnant or get VD (I was educated in the pre-STD days)" . I think these go contrary to what most kids see at High School. Often the kids who drink and have sex are the most popular, best athletes and seem to suffer no obvious social or outward effects of their actions.

I wonder if the argument of pornography can sometimes follow the same thinking- are all porn participants victims of abuse? Are all consumers addicts and are all addicts bad? Are the participants doing it because of the need for drugs, rent money, or to pay their mom's medical bills (I watched a lot of after school specials growing up)? Are innocent mid-west farm girls constantly being exploited by sleazy directors? I don't know for sure but would suspect that none of the questions are as simple as they are sometimes presented by either the defender or the accuser.

I try and emphasize with the youth in my ward and am starting to teach my own children. If they get drunk they probably won't become an alcoholic or kill someone in a car. If they have sex they might not get pregnant. If they look at pornography they might not become an addict (though my anecdotal experience shows this one has the highest probability). However if they do any of the above they will unequivocally lose the companionship of the Holy Ghost. This may not have the fear factor as the other worst case scenarios, but the loss of the Spirit is the one guarantee.

I just re-read my comments...I don't feel like I communicated what I was hoping to. I guess the bottom line I don't know how pornography the act or the industry effects society as a whole, but I'm fairly confident of the effect it could have on me individually and to my family. I may be selfish but ultimately that is what I care about the most.

[LA Ute]

I just re-read my comments...I don't feel like I communicated what I was hoping to. I guess the bottom line I don't know how pornography the act or the industry effects society as a whole, but I'm fairly confident of the effect it could have on me individually and to my family. I may be selfish but ultimately that is what I care about the most.

Worry not, Art, you said it very well. If one really believes that that the Spirit's companionship is important, then it is quite rational to want to avoid the things you mention.

[Mormon Red Death]

<chuckle> - From what they told my wife and I about them, they're 'tastefully done,' but still show all the details.

tastefully done... but definitely all nude.

[scottie]

...

I have always had trouble with several relatively common (at least where I was raised) lessons taught in church- "If you drink you will become an alcoholic, or kill someone while driving", "If you have sex you will become pregnant or get VD (I was educated in the pre-STD days)" . I think these go contrary to what most kids see at High School. Often the kids who drink and have sex are the most popular, best athletes and seem to suffer no obvious social or outward effects of their actions.

...

I would also add seeing other kids suffer no obvious spiritual effects of their actions. (I'm not referring to Church discipline).

[Art Vandelay]

I would also add seeing other kids suffer no obvious spiritual effects of their actions. (I'm not referring to Church discipline).

That is probably the toughest one for most kids, or adults, to reconcile. I suppose the most significant word in your statement is "obvious". I would submit that there is always an effect, but it some, if not many, cases it may be apparent only to ourselves.

[ERCougar]

Worry not, Art, you said it very well. If one really believes that that the Spirit's companionship is important, then it is quite rational to want to avoid the things you mention.

I agree. I think that's an excellent and honest strategy.

My only concern, and I'm not sure it's valid, is that I'm not sure that teens are tuned into this quite as much. A teenaged girl who thinks she's in love and is continually being pressured to go further (with a boy with whom she thinks she's in love...) may not think at the critical moment "I might lose the HG". But then again, maybe I'm not giving her enough credit. I'm just not sure that would have spoken to me too strongly, which I think is why we resort to these fear tactics.

One little side note--the fear tactic regarding sex is actually true. You run an amazingly high risk of catching an STD with unprotected sex. I've seen numbers that say that 50% of college-aged women (all comers, admitted sexually active or not) have chlamydia. I don't know the numbers on HPV, but I suspect they're similarly high.

But in the end, STD or not, the real reason we teach this is exactly what AV pointed out. I just hope there is a way to communicate this to the teenage mind.

[cowboy]

... SIEQ did not receive nearly enough credit for one of the best explanations I have ever read on the subject. ...

I read it, but there were too many big words. Basically, I took it to mean that if landpoke takes a picture of his hairy bum crack and sticks it in his wife's travel bag, she can look at it while away on business trips as a way for them to share their intimacy. When she shows it to the grandmother sitting next to her in first class, though, she's crossed the line and exploited both landpoke and grandmother by making a commodity of said crack.

[Babs]

lol.

I love porn threads.