Question for believers

[taekwondave]

i never asked to know if our church was the only true church. heck, the BoM promise in Moroni doesn't even mention that. it says to ask if these things are true, (I think, I'm not the lds scholar you once were).

tkd, in all seriousness, whether the lds church is the only true church or not, is irrelevant. perhaps that's why I never prayed that way. the question I ask myself is whether or not it brings me closer to Christ, does it make and those I care about most better/happy and does it motivate me to serve people? The answer to all those things is yes - hence the reason I'm still all in and probably always will be.

Ok. Thanks for the honest answer. But why Christ? Why did you pick him? Isn't that kind of the same discussion/question? What makes you confident that Christ is the one you should be following? And if you say "Well, just God then" then why God? Because that all wraps into my singular doubt. How can I trust a spiritual experience to reveal truth to me of any kind? Whether it be the existence of God, the necessity of a savior, or the rightness or wrongness of a particular church? You see that's what I'm asking right? It's not just the church, it's all of it. Are you happy just saying "I don't care whether it's true, the whole thing makes me happy?" Because I can respect that too, I just don't know if you're really paying attention to what I'm really asking here otherwise.

[Commando]

If you believe the church is true because you have prayed and received a spiritual confirmation that it's true, how do you reconcile the fact that members of other churches pray to know if their churches are true and receive spiritual confirmation that they are as well?

I don't know that this happens. Hypothetically, then say, if they want to know if they're in the right church? I would come to the conclusion that that particular situation is where that person needs to be at that point in their spiritual progress. There are billions and billions of people, and Mormonism-- and its membership-- is not the perfect fit for all people at any given time.

[taekwondave]

What's wrong with people finding out their church is true? Does that invalidate Mormonism's truthfulness? Ultimately all the good people on the earth will be exalted as they receive the necessary ordinances either in this life or the next. It doesn't really matter when they receive them, just that they do.


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Well...I kinda think it does, when you consider the content of the Joseph's first vision as contained in the Pearl of Great Price. And everything else you just said...seems to stem from the assumption that the church is true and that that those ordinances are necessary. Isn't that kind of putting the cart before the horse when you consider my question?

[taekwondave]

I don't know that this happens. Hypothetically, then say, if they want to know if they're in the right church? I would come to the conclusion that that particular situation is where that person needs to be at that point in their spiritual progress. There are billions and billions of people, and Mormonism-- and its membership-- is not the perfect fit for all people at any given time.

So it's like a timing and readiness thing? Line upon line, so to speak?

[smokymountainrain]

Ok. Thanks for the honest answer. But why Christ? Why did you pick him? Isn't that kind of the same discussion/question? What makes you confident that Christ is the one you should be following? And if you say "Well, just God then" then why God? Because that all wraps into my singular doubt. How can I trust a spiritual experience to reveal truth to me of any kind? Whether it be the existence of God, the necessity of a savior, or the rightness or wrongness of a particular church? You see that's what I'm asking right? It's not just the church, it's all of it. Are you happy just saying "I don't care whether it's true, the whole thing makes me happy?" Because I can respect that too, I just don't know if you're really paying attention to what I'm really asking here otherwise.

Why Christ? the main reason being that he was who I was taught to emulate and taught to follow from the time I was just a little shit. following his teachings and trying to live like him has worked for me. I'm happy. my family is happy. I think I'm helping contribute to the happiness of those around me. if it aint broke...

[clackamascoug]

Is this where I explain the TkD about multiple dimensions, and how we live a trillion iterations of varying degrees of faith and how we react to all of our questions a trillion times over is the real indicator if Heavenly Father wants to let us in His realm because we've proven that we aren't a pain in the ass to work with when taking us to the next level.

[taekwondave]

Why Christ? the main reason being that he was who I was taught to emulate and taught to follow from the time I was just a little shit. following his teachings and trying to live like him has worked for me. I'm happy. my family is happy. I think I'm helping contribute to the happiness of those around me. if it aint broke...

So yes, "I don't care whether it's true, the whole thing makes me happy." Right?

[taekwondave]

Is this where I explain the TWD about multiple dimensions, and how we live a trillion iterations of varying degrees of faith and how we react to all of our questions a trillion times over is the real indicator if Heavenly Father wants to let us in His realm because we've proven that we aren't a pain in the ass to work with when taking us to the next level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjK9GJMBpt0

[smokymountainrain]

So yes, "I don't care whether it's true, the whole thing makes me happy." Right?

sure. true principles.

[taekwondave]

sure. true principles.

And....we've come full circle.

[Commando]

So it's like a timing and readiness thing? Line upon line, so to speak?

Absolutely. Eternity is a long time and if we're to believe what we're taught, this life is a University-- not the end. Much of your eternity is profoundly affected by how you spent your time here, and I think Exaltation is ideally earned here, but sometimes college isn't for everyone. You know that thing about how a lot of millionaires are HS dropouts? Well there's probably a good metaphor in there somewhere.

Also, I don't believe every being wants "Exaltation" as described by us Mos. I think regular old salvation by way of resurrection and what lies beyond will be above and beyond most folks' wildest. So I when I hear people talk about "Mos believe that only Mos go to Heaven."

[smokymountainrain]

And....we've come full circle.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

[taekwondave]

Absolutely. Eternity is a long time and if we're to believe what we're taught, this life is a University-- not the end. Much of your eternity is profoundly affected by how you spent your time here, and I think Exaltation is ideally earned here, but sometimes college isn't for everyone. You know that thing about how a lot of millionaires are HS dropouts? Well there's probably a good metaphor in there somewhere.

Also, I don't believe every being wants "Exaltation" as described by us Mos. I think regular old salvation by way of resurrection and what lies beyond will be above and beyond most folks' wildest. So I when I hear people talk about "Mos believe that only Mos go to Heaven."

I like these thoughts. Especially the millionaire HS dropouts part. I don't think any of that really answer my original question, but it's a cool way to look at Mormonism, as a Mormon.

[clackamascoug]

My point again... and has been for a long time. We're here on Earth not to prove our worthiness, but to prove we're a good team player. God wants a nice locker room with good chemistry, and he doesn't want a bunch of emotional vampires sucking the fun out of the Celestial Kingdom. Being pleasant and getting along with others are weighted heavily on the final exam. Who wants to go on a long road trip with a guy who's a constant pain in the ass... Not God!

[taekwondave]

I'm not sure I understand your point.

You just threw back out the word "true." Right after saying you didn't care whether it was true or not because it made you happy. Which is a position I can respect, but the moment you say "true principles" it kind of brings us back to the same question: how to know they're true.