Polygamy justification?

[CJF]

Excuse my ignorance, I'm just wondering what your credentials on the matter are. Others asked for your presence in this thread, so I'm sure that your expertise is well established, I'm just a little ignorant.

Not well established as I usually avoid these conversations. I have in the past commented on my scientifically documented lineage. I know no more than almost everyone here on the topic except that I do probably have a distinctly unique set of circumstances that have allowed insight that is not common knowledge to the general public.

[I.J. Reilly]

Not well established as I usually avoid these conversations. I have in the past commented on my scientifically documented lineage. I know no more than almost everyone here on the topic except that I do probably have a distinctly unique set of circumstances that have allowed insight that is not common knowledge to the general public.

Hmmm...this answer seems a little oblique to me, but perhaps it is the best you can give and if it is, so be it. But, if not, are you saying that you have ancestorial ties to Joseph Smith not through Emma? (Mind you, this is just a guess of mine, you didn't actually say anything like that, as far as I can tell.)

[Goatnapper'96]

Hmmm...this answer seems a little oblique to me, but perhaps it is the best you can give and if it is, so be it. But, if not, are you saying that you have ancestorial ties to Joseph Smith not through Emma? (Mind you, this is just a guess of mine, you didn't actually say anything like that, as far as I can tell.)

Do we need any other justification for Polygamy? The great God of Heaven, who knows the end as well as the beginning, in His magnificent omniscience knew that Emma, His indeed choice but yet weak vessel, would one day get choked out by the weeds strewn in her path by the adversary. Hence, God ensured that the seed of the Prophet would still continue true to the faith until the Sons of Levi once again offer up offerings of burnt doves, or until BYU wins a damned game in March Madness....whichever comes first!

[Jarid in Cedar]

Do we need any other justification for Polygamy? The great God of Heaven, who knows the end as well as the beginning, in His magnificent omniscience knew that Emma, His indeed choice but yet weak vessel, would one day get choked out by the weeds strewn in her path by the adversary. Hence, God ensured that the seed of the Prophet would still continue true to the faith until the Sons of Levi once again offer up offerings of burnt doves, or until BYU wins a damned game in March Madness....whichever comes first!

I'm guessing the former...P.S. Good luck Coach Rose.

[UtahDan]

Makes total sense to me. For some people, when you make the total leap of faith, you can easily ignore the regularities or believe easy explanations for those irregularities(TBM's fit into this role). Some people need to rationalization to squelch the dissonance that they feel in their mind/heart(whichever) over a specific topic(apologists fit here). Some people view the history through a critical eye, but believe in the restoration so all the other stuff doesn't matter(revisionists fit into this role). For those who do not(cannot?) fit into any of these roles, they are either nonbelievers from the word go, or the dissonance slowly erodes the foundations of their initial faith/belief until the house falls in on them and they fall away from the church. Some feel anger to their previous beliefs and become antagonists of the church, some step away and find a way to co-exist with the church despite not believing, and some continue to "go through the motions" of being a member because they cannot fathom walking away from the cultural aspect of being LDS.

Now, did that make sense?

What you are saying does make sense but I don't see myself in any of the options you just outlined. My mind is very inquisitive and analytical and seeks a resolution of any conflicts it perceives. Sometimes it can resolve them, and some times it can't. I think there was a time in my life when I was in the "slowly eroding category" but over a number of years I realized that I will always be Mormon, that I love the church, and that when I attend church and do what I am supposed to, I feel very happy and good. I additionally realized that in my heart I believe all the things necessary to to be in, even if I don't understand them all in my mind, and that this paradox was not only tenable, but that it is beautiful because it is faith, the essence of religion.

So now, I continue to study things, learn things, debate and conjecture about things, but none of it leads to an exit. Mostly it just interesting, and when I am done thinking about anything particularly thorny I simply think: what's for dinner?

I think there are a lot of us like this, which makes us a Holy Mystery to SU.

[I.J. Reilly]

What you are saying does make sense but I don't see myself in any of the options you just outlined. My mind is very inquisitive and analytical and seeks a resolution of any conflicts it perceives. Sometimes it can resolve them, and some times it can't. I think there was a time in my life when I was in the "slowly eroding category" but over a number of years I realized that I will always be Mormon, that I love the church, and that when I attend church and do what I am supposed to, I feel very happy and good. I additionally realized that in my heart I believe all the things necessary to to be in, even if I don't understand them all in my mind, and that this paradox was not only tenable, but that it is beautiful because it is faith, the essence of religion.

So now, I continue to study things, learn things, debate and conjecture about things, but none of it leads to an exit. Mostly it just interesting, and when I am done thinking about anything particularly thorny I simply think: what's for dinner?

I think there are a lot of us like this, which makes us a Holy Mystery to SU.

I didn't see myself in any of Jarid's descriptions, but here I can see a pretty accurate description of my relationship to Mormonism.

[Jarid in Cedar]

What you are saying does make sense but I don't see myself in any of the options you just outlined. My mind is very inquisitive and analytical and seeks a resolution of any conflicts it perceives. Sometimes it can resolve them, and some times it can't. I think there was a time in my life when I was in the "slowly eroding category" but over a number of years I realized that I will always be Mormon, that I love the church, and that when I attend church and do what I am supposed to, I feel very happy and good. I additionally realized that in my heart I believe all the things necessary to to be in, even if I don't understand them all in my mind, and that this paradox was not only tenable, but that it is beautiful because it is faith, the essence of religion.

So now, I continue to study things, learn things, debate and conjecture about things, but none of it leads to an exit. Mostly it just interesting, and when I am done thinking about anything particularly thorny I simply think: what's for dinner?

I think there are a lot of us like this, which makes us a Holy Mystery to SU.

The groupings are not absolute and there is a substantial overlap(and likely other categories that I haven't thought of). I too am very anylitical and I really hate spiritual and intellectual dissonance. When the dissonance is loud and intrusive, I am very depressed and detatched. I wandered through many of these groupings as I slowly exited mormonism. I existed as an apologist for a while and a revisionist for a while, but as the dissonance continued the house crashed down around me. I became an antagonist for a good amount of time, until I realized that the anger was consuming me and causing even more dissonance. I finally came to terms with what I was angry about and who I was angry at. I have finally come to a peace with my nonbelief and how to integrate the church into my life. This was a painful road to travel, but I am a more complete person for this path, and I wouldn't re-do it if I could. I learned more about myself, faith, my relationship with Christ and God, than if I had stopped trying to quell the dissonance.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I didn't see myself in any of Jarid's descriptions, but here I can see a pretty accurate description of my relationship to Mormonism.

I would agree that he described a great many people in the Church.

[UtahDan]

The groupings are not absolute and there is a substantial overlap(and likely other categories that I haven't thought of). I too am very anylitical and I really hate spiritual and intellectual dissonance. When the dissonance is loud and intrusive, I am very depressed and detatched. I wandered through many of these groupings as I slowly exited mormonism. I existed as an apologist for a while and a revisionist for a while, but as the dissonance continued the house crashed down around me. I became an antagonist for a good amount of time, until I realized that the anger was consuming me and causing even more dissonance. I finally came to terms with what I was angry about and who I was angry at. I have finally come to a peace with my nonbelief and how to integrate the church into my life. This was a painful road to travel, but I am a more complete person for this path, and I wouldn't re-do it if I could. I learned more about myself, faith, my relationship with Christ and God, than if I had stopped trying to quell the dissonance.

Getting to know you, getting to know all about you...

If you don't mind sharing, at what age did you leave the church and how was that received by your family/spouse? It seems to me like a lot of people don't manage to hold on to their most important relationships through that process (or can't). Just curious, but if that is too personal you need not respond.

[I.J. Reilly]

Getting to know you, getting to know all about you...

If you don't mind sharing, at what age did you leave the church and how was that received by your family/spouse? It seems to me like a lot of people don't manage to hold on to their most important relationships through that process (or can't). Just curious, but if that is too personal you need not respond.

Dang it. Now I'm just feeling like UD's lackey, but I'd love to hear what you have to say, too.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Getting to know you, getting to know all about you...

If you don't mind sharing, at what age did you leave the church and how was that received by your family/spouse? It seems to me like a lot of people don't manage to hold on to their most important relationships through that process (or can't). Just curious, but if that is too personal you need not respond.

I was about 29 when it all came to a head. I am still married through all of it, and in some ways our marriage is stronger for it. She is resentful that I have "turned my back"(her words) on the promises made in the temple and that resentment comes out at times of anger.
My family was fairly indifferent in that we are a solid blend of nonmembers, active members, inactive members, Jack mormons, and ex-members. Her father would prefer that I am active, but he cares more that his daughter has a good husband who cares for her emotionally, financially, etc. He and I get along quite well, but this topic rarely comes up between us. I am somewhat of a parriha(sp?) to her mother.

I am sorry to anyone that is annoyed/offended by my rantings, but this thread has taken me down roads that I haven't visit in quite awhile.

[YOhio]

I was about 29 when it all came to a head. I am still married through all of it, and in some ways our marriage is stronger for it. She is resentful that I have "turned my back"(her words) on the promises made in the temple and that resentment comes out at times of anger.
My family was fairly indifferent in that we are a solid blend of nonmembers, active members, inactive members, Jack mormons, and ex-members. Her father would prefer that I am active, but he cares more that his daughter has a good husband who cares for her emotionally, financially, etc. He and I get along quite well, but this topic rarely comes up between us. I am somewhat of a parriha(sp?) to her mother.

I am sorry to anyone that is annoyed/offended by my rantings, but this thread has taken me down roads that I haven't visit in quite awhile.

Thanks for sharing this Jarid. I'm glad you've found peace.

[UtahDan]

I was about 29 when it all came to a head. I am still married through all of it, and in some ways our marriage is stronger for it. She is resentful that I have "turned my back"(her words) on the promises made in the temple and that resentment comes out at times of anger.
My family was fairly indifferent in that we are a solid blend of nonmembers, active members, inactive members, Jack mormons, and ex-members. Her father would prefer that I am active, but he cares more that his daughter has a good husband who cares for her emotionally, financially, etc. He and I get along quite well, but this topic rarely comes up between us. I am somewhat of a parriha(sp?) to her mother.

I am sorry to anyone that is annoyed/offended by my rantings, but this thread has taken me down roads that I haven't visit in quite awhile.

I'm glad that has worked out for you. Your wife is to be commended as well, every person travels a different spiritual road and I'm certain that your decision, though obviously right for you, has been tough for her. There must be a great deal of love in your home.

[Jarid in Cedar]

I'm glad that has worked out for you. Your wife is to be commended as well, every person travels a different spiritual road and I'm certain that your decision, though obviously right for you, has been tough for her. There must be a great deal of love in your home.

That has been the toughest thing for me, dragging her on a journey that she really didn't want. I hated that she was/is hurt through all of it. We are truly 2 souls meant to be together and that is likely the only reason we are still together.

[SteelBlue]

I think there are a lot of us like this, which makes us a Holy Mystery to SU.

That (the whole post, not just the line I've quoted here) was a very good description of the way I feel about these things.