Why mormons disaffect from church

[optimomojo]

000

[taekwondave]

More often than not, someone learns something about church history that they just can't reconcile so they "put it on the shelf" for later. Their curiosity then carries them further down the rabbit hole where they find more and more facts that they can't reconcile which also get moved to "the shelf." What I believe actually causes that "shelf" to break and for people to leave the church is when they consider the fact that so many prophets and general authorities disagreed with each other--not just prophets and GA's from different eras either, but contemporaries. In order to reconcile those mistakes and stay in the church they say, "Well, our leaders are just people--they can make mistakes, they can be wrong."

That line of thinking though, while it saves them in the short-run, becomes their undoing in the long-run. Why? Because this is the one true church of God--that's the basis of their testimony. If you are open the possibility that previous prophets were wrong and you are open to the possibility that current prophets are wrong, then what else have they gotten wrong? What are they getting wrong right now that I've followed blindly to my own detriment? They let blacks hold the priesthood, then they didn't, and then they did again. Women can't hold the priesthood--could that change at some point? What if they're wrong about all kinds of things like...the nature of God? What if God isn't really the way they think He is? Where can I go to find the truth if not them?

Dare I say...I must...trust in...myself???

Then they do. They come to trust in themselves to find answers to the hard questions of life. They trust themselves even more than they trust their priesthood leaders because they've realized that the priesthood and a calling, no matter how high up in the church it is, does not guarantee accuracy or righteousness. What's true is true regardless of whether leaders say it is or not, and what's right is right, and what's kind is kind and so on.

But what place in the Mormon church does a Mormon have who answers to nobody but himself? Mormons answer to their Bishops. They bend and yield to the temple recommend questions. But if they've reasoned that all those things could be misinterpreted or mishandled through human error at any time...they no longer care what standards others have for them, what people who claim positions of authority say, where do such people fit in?

Soon these people go to church and find themselves internally disagreeing with all kinds of things that are said, by members at all levels of the church and they're faced with a conundrum: do I speak up and disagree and make everyone uncomfortable to satisfy my own need to be heard, or do I sit here quietly and allow them to all repeat the same things and pat each other on the backs while I slowly die inside just so I can keep up appearances and/or enjoy the organization and the comradery, and the company of the tribe I was raised in?

And soon...they can't take it anymore. As much as they wish they could stay, as much as they wish they could just tune out the voices they disagree with and just smile and sing and pray to a God they've come to doubt in so many ways...they realize their time would be better spent elsewhere doing things that truly uplift them...the way church used to, but no longer can.

[Walter Sobchak]

My observation of disaffected mormons [...]

Yo Adrian, why not just cut to the chase and tell us about the event that precipitated your return to the board after over a year of inactivity?

Obviously it had something to do with Sabbath Day observance.

My "working theory" is that you hosted a disc-golf event yesterday that was not attended by some of your more ortho-Mo family and friends. You spent a lot of time organizing it and the fact that your longtime mormon friends "artificially restricted" themselves has put a dark cloud over your head. So you revisited us to vent some frustration.

[Sleeping in EQ]

More often than not, someone learns something about church history that they just can't reconcile so they "put it on the shelf" for later. Their curiosity then carries them further down the rabbit hole where they find more and more facts that they can't reconcile which also get moved to "the shelf." What I believe actually causes that "shelf" to break and for people to leave the church is when they consider the fact that so many prophets and general authorities disagreed with each other--not just prophets and GA's from different eras either, but contemporaries. In order to reconcile those mistakes and stay in the church they say, "Well, our leaders are just people--they can make mistakes, they can be wrong."

That line of thinking though, while it saves them in the short-run, becomes their undoing in the long-run. Why? Because this is the one true church of God--that's the basis of their testimony. If you are open the possibility that previous prophets were wrong and you are open to the possibility that current prophets are wrong, then what else have they gotten wrong? What are they getting wrong right now that I've followed blindly to my own detriment? They let blacks hold the priesthood, then they didn't, and then they did again. Women can't hold the priesthood--could that change at some point? What if they're wrong about all kinds of things like...the nature of God? What if God isn't really the way they think He is? Where can I go to find the truth if not them?

Dare I say...I must...trust in...myself???

Then they do. They come to trust in themselves to find answers to the hard questions of life. They trust themselves even more than they trust their priesthood leaders because they've realized that the priesthood and a calling, no matter how high up in the church it is, does not guarantee accuracy or righteousness. What's true is true regardless of whether leaders say it is or not, and what's right is right, and what's kind is kind and so on.

But what place in the Mormon church does a Mormon have who answers to nobody but himself? Mormons answer to their Bishops. They bend and yield to the temple recommend questions. But if they've reasoned that all those things could be misinterpreted or mishandled through human error at any time...they no longer care what standards others have for them, what people who claim positions of authority say, where do such people fit in?

Soon these people go to church and find themselves internally disagreeing with all kinds of things that are said, by members at all levels of the church and they're faced with a conundrum: do I speak up and disagree and make everyone uncomfortable to satisfy my own need to be heard, or do I sit here quietly and allow them to all repeat the same things and pat each other on the backs while I slowly die inside just so I can keep up appearances and/or enjoy the organization and the comradery, and the company of the tribe I was raised in?

And soon...they can't take it anymore. As much as they wish they could stay, as much as they wish they could just tune out the voices they disagree with and just smile and sing and pray to a God they've come to doubt in so many ways...they realize their time would be better spent elsewhere doing things that truly uplift them...the way church used to, but no longer can.

Word.

[Walter Sobchak]

I enjoy my new found freedom

Wow, what a small world... I played some frisbee at a nearby park with the kids as well yesterday!

We also went to Church in the morning. Funny how those two activities aren't mutually exclusive.

Peace.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Yea. Word.
My journey out was more sudden than many postmo's I know. I was deeply devoted and committed since I was a kid, and I didn't mind having things unanswered, unexplained, ignored, or resolved at time right then convenient to me. But, boy, when my switch flipped, I was flabbergasted at all the things I devoted myself to that are now clearly bullshit to me. It's not a horrible life, but I do mourn the opportunity costs. A consolation is the comfort I get that my kids will not be indoctrinated and infantilized like I was.

It could also be described as stage 4 in James Fowler's stages of faith.

[Jeff Lebowski]

As anticlimactic as it is, you are wrong on nearly every count. I did play disc-golf with my kids yesterday, and we had a great time. I sometimes invite a post/never-mo friend to join us, but I didn't invite anyone this time. I have some casual mo-friends I do things with on Wednesdays and Saturdays.

I rarely check out CUF, but I was bored, on a late Sunday night. Would you rather I be reading exmo blogs, forums or FB groups? They haven't interested me in over a year either.

The thing that triggered my Sunday post was just as I said: I feel sorry for folks who internalize religious-sabbath observance. I enjoy my new found freedom, and to me religious observance is a colossal waste of time, but if that's someone's thing, it's no skin off my nose: knock yourself out paying, praying, obeying, etc.

So, no venting here. I try to live at peace with anyone who isn't a dick towards me.

Don't listen to these jerks, OM. Feel free to drop by anytime to let us know that you feel sorry for us!

[Jeff Lebowski]

It could also be described as stage 4 in James Fowler's stages of faith.

Sort of. I think it would be better described as a crash-and-burn at the beginning of a stage 4 transition. Stage 4 is supposed to be finding a balance between the religious community and self. What he described is a complete transition to self.

EDIT: Ditto for TKD

[CardiacCoug]

It could also be described as stage 4 in James Fowler's stages of faith.

I guess this is probably gonna sound arrogant but I gotta say I can't believe people can get to 25 years of age or older before they start thinking "abstract theology is at best unprovable speculation and at worst probably total bullshit." I was thinking that at ten years of age.

When Dave says that all of a sudden as an adult he starts to realize a Priesthood leader like a Bishop might be wrong -- WTF? What on earth would make you think they are right, especially when it comes to totally ridiculous and obviously false things like Golden Plates and Reformed Egyptian. Of course it's not true!

On the other hand I gotta say then the reaction of "I've devoted my entire life to bullshit!" is equally ridiculous.

When I go to church people are talking about being nice to your family, serving others, trying to be Christlike, being generous and selfless. You're getting to know people, being inspired by the good things other people are doing -- that's not bullshit, that's what life is all about.

I guess what I'm saying is it blows my mind that people don't reach Fowler Stage 4 until their 20s or 30s and then can't move through Stage 4 pretty quickly -- there's a lot of good stuff about the Church even if it's not what it claims to be. Why do people take religion so literally? It's a metaphor!

[Sleeping in EQ]

Sort of. I think it would be better described as a crash-and-burn at the beginning of a stage 4 transition. Stage 4 is supposed to be finding a balance between the religious community and self. What he described is a complete transition to self.

EDIT: Ditto for TKD

I've read Fowler's book and disagree with you. You're describing stage 5.

Maybe you've just mixed up the stages?

[CardiacCoug]

Hmm -- if a mod could delete my double post that would be great -- I can't seem to do it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Hmm -- if a mod could delete my double post that would be great -- I can't seem to do it.

Done.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I've read Fowler's book and disagree with you. You're describing stage 5.

Maybe you've just mixed up the stages?

'

http://rdlang05.hubpages.com/hub/App...tages-of-Faith

This stage is characterized by the person committing to their beliefs (even though they may be changing), and taking responsibility for what they believe. In this stage the individual must find balance between many opposing extremes: community vs. self, subjectivity vs. objectivity, self-fulfillment vs. self-actualization, etc. It is the stage of tension, of reason, and of growth.

...

However, in some this may lead to a kind of ego-centrism or close-mindedness as their own subjective worldview becomes the ultimate judge of objective reality.

[Walter Sobchak]

Guys, my Fowler faith stage lvl is 1337. Just so you know.

[Northwestcoug]

I guess this is probably gonna sound arrogant but I gotta say I can't believe people can get to 25 years of age or older before they start thinking "abstract theology is at best unprovable speculation and at worst probably total bullshit." I was thinking that at ten years of age.

When Dave says that all of a sudden as an adult he starts to realize a Priesthood leader like a Bishop might be wrong -- WTF? What on earth would make you think they are right, especially when it comes to totally ridiculous and obviously false things like Golden Plates and Reformed Egyptian. Of course it's not true!

On the other hand I gotta say then the reaction of "I've devoted my entire life to bullshit!" is equally ridiculous.

When I go to church people are talking about being nice to your family, serving others, trying to be Christlike, being generous and selfless. You're getting to know people, being inspired by the good things other people are doing -- that's not bullshit, that's what life is all about.

I guess what I'm saying is it blows my mind that people don't reach Fowler Stage 4 until their 20s or 30s and then can't move through Stage 4 pretty quickly -- there's a lot of good stuff about the Church even if it's not what it claims to be. Why do people take religion so literally? It's a metaphor!

I'm blushing here There I was, late 30's and taking the majority of teachings I heard from the church as literal truth, even those 'obviously false' things. I also had a lot of faith that my priesthood leaders received divine revelation, even knowing they were imperfect. Well sure, they are obviously false now. But not a few years ago, dammit!

You've said similar things a few times before. I'm honestly curious what percentage of the church membership do you think takes the 'obviously false' things as literal truth. Also, how normal do you think the transition from a literal to an abstract theology at ~25 years of age, as you say?

I've got to say, I think your precocious transition to abstract theology represents a rare event in the church. The majority of members I know believe the literalness of what they've been taught since primary, logic be damned. I would also wager that if these people after decades of sacrificing a lot for the church were to come to a realization that it's 'probably total bullshit', the fallback to the metaphor way of life wouldn't be their first reaction. They're going to be pissed for awhile. Some of them might be able to fall back into stealth mode full activity, but not many. If you don't believe in even the core doctrines of the church (as I'm assuming you don't), the important things in life can be relatively easily found outside of the church.