Big Brother is Watching

[Commando]

What on earth could be more prideful than believing that of all the billions of humans who have ever lived in 200,000 years of human history, the Mormon corner of the universe has the monopoly of being the full and everlasting gospel?

I dunno. Claiming that there is no God based on your own understanding of the universe?

[CardiacCoug]

For me it boils down to the fact that I kind of like going to church. There are a couple of old guys that come up to me almost every week and have me check their pulse to make sure they aren't in atrial fib. A guy in the ward called me a few months ago because he fainted at home -- I made a stat house-call and his heart rate was about 30 and he got a pacemaker right away and is doing great. I feel fairly certain that two people in my ward would be dead if not for me. I like playing basketball with guys in the ward. My bishop is awesome and he (along with most of the ward for that matter) knows I'm not religious and nobody seems to care. I have decided that when it comes to my relationship with the church that by far the most important thing for me to be happy is not to take religion or my non-belief too seriously. It doesn't matter and nobody gives a shit what I believe or don't believe.

All abstract theology is nonsense but Mormonism is interesting and more weird/quirky than most religions which is kind of fun. Mormons are good people for the most part and I like being part of the LDS community. Also if my kids end up going to any church as adults I would probably prefer it to be a Mormon one since I am familiar with the Mormon brand of religious delusions.

[kccougar]

I dunno. Claiming that there is no God based on your own understanding of the universe?

[TripletDaddy]

Mormonism needs an infusion of democracy. That would help a ton.

No more fake voting.

All those in favor please manifest by the uplifted hand.

[CardiacCoug]

Read some Marilynne Robinson and maybe you'd grasp what it is you're missing. I can't articulate it like she does through her art. It takes immense pride to discard God, and irrational faith in yourself and your own understanding. Your argumentation is astounding unscientific. The seedbed trait is humility. Christ cannot work with someone unless they become as a child. Perceiving grace in one's life requires the power combo of gratitude and humility. Accepting God, Christ, the Book of Mormon is not a rejection of the rest of the humanity in any way. For me, it's a way to accept and understand my kinship with them.

Grace. Faith. Soul. Atonement. Mercy. These are the realities I experience. Science cannot explain them. But they do not require a rejection of science either. Science and an understanding of the cosmos --- if there is anything that is humbling, it is that. The humility of scientific wonder is a great companion to religious faith. They are both so enriching.

Does anybody read this and feel a burning in the bosom that Levin speaks the truth?

I experience only a stupor of thought as I read this post. Honest.

[Bo Diddley]

What on earth could be more prideful than believing that of all the billions of humans who have ever lived in 200,000 years of human history, the Mormon corner of the universe has the monopoly of being the full and everlasting gospel?

Not at all what the Church teaches on this subject. Maybe you just forgot. I guess that can happen if you stop going to church.

[LiveCoug]

I'm fascinated by angry apostates and their paranoia.

[Jeff Lebowski]

1. Church paying people to fake tweet on the internet.
2. Low salaries for women in Utah.
3. No enough female faculty at BYU.
4. Bishop inappropriately discussing sex with kids in private.
5. GA's giving wacky advice in GC. (#40)
6. Religion hijacked moral structure.
7. Mormons are prideful for believing they are the center of the universe.
8. Mormonism needs to stop the fake voting.

Phew! I bet I missed a few. Hard to keep up.

[TripletDaddy]

I'm fascinated by angry apostates and their paranoia.

How much is the church paying you to say that?

[LiveCoug]

How much is the church paying you to say that?

10% of Sooner's tithing contribution.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

10% of Sooner's tithing contribution.

If you were a woman it would be 6%

[Donuthole]

If you were a woman it would be 6%

Wrong; women get paid less than men.

[Clark Addison]

I don't think you are wrong when speaking about yourself but I don't think the process you describe is nearly universal. To the contrary, I think people are who they are. If they were strident and hard core believers the transition will be tough and they will end up being strident and hard core non-believers. For myself, I have no doubt that I could walk away tomorrow, if I was so inclined, and I would never pass through even a Mildly Annoyed stage, let alone a Truly Angry one. But that is descriptive, not prescriptive. We are each of us just what we are; no more and no less.

To a large part I agree with this. This is why I, like you, would transition to the Flystripper stage fairly easily. I can't ever imagine myself going through a P-Dip phase, but I don't begrudge him it. When he was all in, he was very different than I am in my all in stage, and now that he is out, he takes a lot of that same personality with him. I wouldn't be taking the same road as he is, but I understand, at least a little bit, what makes him do it.

Then there are the outliers, like Sooner. I kind of get where Niku is coming from, but don't get Sooner at all. This isn't a criticism. I love Sooner, but I believe he admits that he was never really a believer, or if he was, certainly never hard-core. So I don't really get his relationship with the church, like I do P-Diddy's.

[SoonerCoug]

I'm not saying there is no God. I'm also not saying there were no golden plates or that there was no Nephi. Or that there were no elephants in the Americas. Or that there were no unicorns. Or that there is no Santa.

All I'm saying is that there is no evidence to support any of it. None. Zero. Zilch.

I am also saying that part of the genius of religious persuasion is to convince you--from a young age--that believing in things without evidence is good. This is where we disagree. I do not think it is good to take things on faith.

Quite honestly, talking to some of you reminds me of an experience I had in 5th grade in the elementary school cafeteria. There was a girl named Leslie who believed in Santa. My peers kept telling her that Santa wasn't real--reminding her that the chimney couldn't accommodate him and that Santa could not possibly be the one to deliver every present in the world. Nothing could convince her because of her unwavering faith.

Like I said, faith is the most overrated virtue.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Honest question, did Leslie turn you down? I remember the girl that turned me down in elementary luckily for my salvation she was an atheist so it turned me into a hardcore believer.