Jesus as an opponent of the rich

[Mormon Red Death]

I started with stake, but transitioned to community. In general, I was talking about helping those we know are in need. As a rule, I think we do a pretty good job of that, though I'll admit that I think wuap is right that rural America is probably better at it than urban or even suburban communities. There's always room for improvement, but I don't think Christians are the greedy lot that you portrayed (perhaps unintentionally) in your original post.

That's not to imply that all of us give everything we have to charity. We tend to give where we know we'll make a difference. Generally speaking, we help those we know we can help, and when there is a crisis anywhere in the globe Americans are well-known for opening their checkbooks. After 9-11, the 2004 tsunami, Katrina, etc., charities received more donations than they knew what to do with. On the other hand, we tend not to donate as much to charities where we don't recognize the need or don't trust that the money will be put to good use. We could do better at that. Still, I don't think Jesus has a problem with us blowing a few grand on a vacation if we are also doing what we can to make sure that those within our sphere of influence have their basic needs met. Generally speaking, I think that's something Mormons and Christians in general do fairly well.

Sorry unless you are living on $60,000 year and giving away 90k (the government gets the difference) then you are not a true believer. Assuming of course that tons of Mormons make 200k a year.

[imanihonjin]

Sorry unless you are living on $60,000 year and giving away 90k (the government gets the difference) then you are not a true believer. Assuming of course that tons of Mormons make 200k a year.

Good thing he isn't a true believer though because then he would be scary as hell.

[San Juan Sun]

Good thing he isn't a true believer though because then he would be scary as hell.

MRD is a well known mullah/ascetic.

[byu71]

Sorry unless you are living on $60,000 year and giving away 90k (the government gets the difference) then you are not a true believer. Assuming of course that tons of Mormons make 200k a year.

I think you will find statistically the percentage of members paying tithing directly correlates to the percentage making over $200,000 a year. Personally I think the discipline, obedience and faith to pay a full tithing deserves $1million a year as a blessing, but $200,000 isn't bad.

[RC Vikings]

I still have my doubts that Jesus wants us spending so much time and money on helping the dead when so many of the living still need help.

[ERCougar]

I still have my doubts that Jesus wants us spending so much time and money on helping the dead when so many of the living still need help.

Ding ding ding!

[byu71]

I still have my doubts that Jesus wants us spending so much time and money on helping the dead when so many of the living still need help.

This and so many things we do seem like brilliant activities to tie, bind, obligate, manipulate, etc. someone to the faith.

This is all brought about by very brilliant men or a brilliant God who showed these men how to keep the troops in line.

[Solon]

I don't think you understand. People who really believe either scare the hell out of me with the crazy/evil things that would make sense in that mindset or they impress the hell out of me with their awesomeness. But honestly I think there are very, very few true believers out there.

Cardiac is right - like Oskar Schindler in the movie, who wondered if even the little ring on his finger might have done more to save one more person, the realization of just how short people fall of the Jesusish ideal is terrifying. This is the main argument for salvation by grace. Doing it via works is overwhelmingly impossible. Even Origen realized that he was unable to "pray without ceasing" (1 Thess 5.17) because - he noted - you would die of thirst & starvation rather quickly.

Clement of Alexandria wrote an entire book on figuring out how rich people can still be considered righteous. It's a nice piece of sophistry, written to appease the consciences of the elite patrons who had converted to Christianity.

The terror of true belief is probably equal to the terror of true non-belief. Either way, at some point you realize that you're completely screwed.

[Moliere]

Cardiac is right - like Oskar Schindler in the movie, who wondered if even the little ring on his finger might have done more to save one more person, the realization of just how short people fall of the Jesusish ideal is terrifying. This is the main argument for salvation by grace. Doing it via works is overwhelmingly impossible. Even Origen realized that he was unable to "pray without ceasing" (1 Thess 5.17) because - he noted - you would die of thirst & starvation rather quickly.

Clement of Alexandria wrote an entire book on figuring out how rich people can still be considered righteous. It's a nice piece of sophistry, written to appease the consciences of the elite patrons who had converted to Christianity.

The terror of true belief is probably equal to the terror of true non-belief. Either way, at some point you realize that you're completely screwed.

I've mentioned this before some years ago, but my comment about Mormons loving wealth and using wealth as a sign of righteousness is obviously true, however it pales in comparison to other Christian churches. We preach the prosperity doctrine but with a much more muted zeal than some of the evangelical and baptist congregations in the Bible belt. In fact, the one religion I've found that doesn't really seem to place any importance whatsoever on wealth is Catholicism.....which might be due to the simple lives their leaders are asked to follow (notwithstanding the outliers who live in luxurious mansions...whom the current pope is trying to humble).

I for one am as guilty as the next guy. I have a great job and decent cars and a decent sized home. We take cool vacations and I spend money on bikes, computers and whatever else I want. If anyone burns at judgment day for not giving away their wealth it'll be me. Of course, I didn't buy my current car (which is a luxury brand but certainly not really that nice) until after I heard the reason for the church's investment in City Creek. I figured if the church defined beauty as upper-middle class shopping that I was justified to beautify myself with an upper-middle class car. I'm really just following the church and the prophet in this regard.

[Goatnapper'96]

I still have my doubts that Jesus wants us spending so much time and money on helping the dead when so many of the living still need help.

It is an interesting time to live and believe. There are many things where secular humanists and religious folks can find common ground - somebody quotes Professor Woot's words in these parts about the enlightenment and helping the helpless shitbags (we are all shitbags according to King Benjamin - the greatest mormon secular humanist) with no skills the market values. However, while the secular humanists get hard nipples over Welfare Square, they chafe with frustration at the opulent LDS Temples and the time many of us spend going inside. But to me faith in the belief that salvation is for all, and the corresponding action of temple participation, is as equally important as helping the HSWNSTMV. It is tough to balance these competing interests for our time and resources with the compelling arguments we so frequently hear.

I did like salvation for all more before the old lady from Menan who made the friday night prime rib at the Idaho Falls LDS temple moved onto the happy hunting grounds. The salmon steak with a scone is just no substitute. However, you now attend in Rexburg I assume and have to sit amongst all those newly married hotbodies with all that sexual tension wanting to get to practicing in preparation for an eternity of humping. Likely no substitute for the friday nite prime rib at the IF temple of your days gone by.

[RC Vikings]

I did like salvation for all more before the old lady from Menan who made the friday night prime rib at the Idaho Falls LDS temple moved onto the happy hunting grounds. The salmon steak with a scone is just no substitute. However, you now attend in Rexburg I assume and have to sit amongst all those newly married hotbodies with all that sexual tension wanting to get to practicing in preparation for an eternity of humping. Likely no substitute for the friday nite prime rib at the IF temple of your days gone by.

Prime Rib will always beat sitting across the aisle from newly married, mostly frumpy, overly dressed BYU-I students.