The June 1

[Green Monstah]

That really sucks. I need to consider whether or not I can still claim to sustain the leadership and be worthy of a recommend. I don't think I can, but I will have to spend some time considering what I feel and the ramifications of that decision.

Don't do it. Just answer the questions in a manner necessary to get a TR.

[Goatnapper'96]

I hope not. She's not like me. She believes, or so I'm convinced. I hope she is still believing in 20 years and is vindicated when women are ordained.

The church has now created a public martyr. May they now reap the consequences.

I am thinking at least hundreds will know Sister Kate again!

[Blueintheface]

If you ever end up in a similar situation, I hope people don't judge you this harshly.

Agreed. That was a very narrow take on a terrible situation. I believe that she still believes and would hope that would translate into rejoining the fold but to suggest this was for attention is silly. Blame the media perhaps but how else was she to go about suggesting that perhaps men haven't cornered the market on revelation for the masses? A true feminist AND faithful LDS woman can do nothing less IMO.

[Northwestcoug]

Disappointing but not unexpected. I think when the church does change its stance many members (certainly not the Church itself) will point to her as a pioneer. Too bad that by that time she will have long since moved into the bitter Ex-mo crowd.

After what she has gone through, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest, and wouldn't blame her. She was as respectful and thoughtful as you could be asking for (admittedly) major change in the church. Well, now at least we know just how much you can agitate for change.

Good luck for gay marriage supporters...

[Blueintheface]

That really sucks. I need to consider whether or not I can still claim to sustain the leadership and be worthy of a recommend. I don't think I can, but I will have to spend some time considering what I feel and the ramifications of that decision.

Terrible timing in your case. Don't react too quickly given the recent events in your life.

[Blueintheface]

Well... I know that excommunication is only appropriate in a couple of different scenarios: one being when the Church needs to disassociate itself from somebody and the other being when a person needs to have a fresh start in the church through thorough contrition and repentance. This is why they don't bother with folks like SU who no longer believe in the Church and present neither a threat to the Church nor a candidate for repentance.

I believe this one falls under the first group. Clearly she was never going to let this go no matter what explanation she got from Church leaders and loves to make a stink about it, loves to go to the press, etc. She likes everything about the Church except its basic structure, so she is hoping they'll reboot it for her? She's not quitting until they receive the revelation that suits her? Wow- she is barking up the wrong tree. The Community of Christ sounds more her speed, to be honest.

Well it may be honest but I think you're off base here. She may have become somewhat of a martyr as the media steam picked up but I'm sure today was not a happy day for her.

[Commando]

Agreed. That was a very narrow take on a terrible situation. I believe that she still believes and would hope that would translate into rejoining the fold but to suggest this was for attention is silly. Blame the media perhaps but how else was she to go about suggesting that perhaps men haven't cornered the market on revelation for the masses? A true feminist AND faithful LDS woman can do nothing less IMO.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did she not go to the New York Times rather than her initial disciplinary council? If she thought bringing attention to the issue via the media would be a better catalyst for change, then I have to say that was a bad call on her part. I just can't conclude anything else given the little info I have about the situation.

*further, I don't believe the Church is prone to punish people for having personal doctrinal struggles. At all. But you have to admit this was not personal- she picked up the rifle for a cause that she perceived to be greater than herself. If she has become a martyr and if the media has picked up steam, that's her doing. I mean- she started a website, a formal organization, picketed general conference, did interviews, apparently authored or at least commissioned and published a brief/critique of her disciplinary council, etc.

If she is a believer, then yes- it sucks to be her. She's not getting satisfaction on her personal query, and she has to promise to drop the crusade if she wants back in. But she has to also know that crusades have never been the way anything has changed in the Church, and was probably told in no uncertain terms to drop the crusade months ago. This is why the apparent lack of sympathy coming from me if my posts are coming across as harsh, judgmental, or hurtful.

[Uncle Ted]

I hope not. She's not like me. She believes, or so I'm convinced. I hope she is still believing in 20 years and is vindicated when women are ordained.

The church has now created a public martyr. May they now reap the consequences.

So have any schools threaten to boycott playing BYU yet?

[Pelado]

Well... I know that excommunication is only appropriate in a couple of different scenarios: one being when the Church needs to disassociate itself from somebody and the other being when a person needs to have a fresh start in the church through thorough contrition and repentance. This is why they don't bother with folks like SU who no longer believe in the Church and present neither a threat to the Church nor a candidate for repentance.

I believe this one falls under the first group. Clearly she was never going to let this go no matter what explanation she got from Church leaders and loves to make a stink about it, loves to go to the press, etc. She likes everything about the Church except its basic structure, so she is hoping they'll reboot it for her? She's not quitting until they receive the revelation that suits her? Wow- she is barking up the wrong tree. The Community of Christ sounds more her speed, to be honest.

I'm finding myself less and less interested in the structure of the Church. Its most appealing aspects are the loving individuals that comprise it.

I'm not sure how you can be so sure about how she would react to a response from the Prophet on this matter. How would you have her proceed when no one in authority will talk with her about her Doctrine & Covenants-style request?

[Pheidippides]

So have any schools threaten to boycott playing BYU yet?

No, dammit! I want to see black horn rimmed glasses on opposing players at the next women's volleyball game!

[wuapinmon]

Don't do it. Just answer the questions in a manner necessary to get a TR.

Terrible timing in your case. Don't react too quickly given the recent events in your life.

Well, in his confirmation, I blessed that my son would live his life ethically and morally and not worry about getting into trouble, but about following the Savior's example and by remaining as guileless as he could be about his life. The important thing is to be good, moral, and ethical, not worry about public consequences for not being so. So, am I more of a hypocrite by swallowing this and lying in my recommend interview, or if I keep my recommend, but don't ever use it? I don't know.

Maybe, deep down, I'm a follower who likes to grumble, but it's too much of a coward to make a stand. But, is a stand even worth it if it hurts other people beyond my capacity to repair?

[Commando]

I'm finding myself less and less interested in the structure of the Church. Its most appealing aspects are the loving individuals that comprise it.

I'm not sure how you can be so sure about how she would react to a response from the Prophet on this matter. How would you have her proceed when no one in authority will talk with her about her Doctrine & Covenants-style request?

That's just it. I don't know who told her what. Clearly Oaks' talk was a direct response to her little movement and I also don't know what other questions she had that were not addressed. I don't know if she wrote any letters or if anyone wrote her any responses, either.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did she not go to the New York Times rather than her initial disciplinary council? If she thought bringing attention to the issue via the media would be a better catalyst for change, then I have to say that was a bad call on her part. I just can't conclude anything else given the little info I have about the situation.

*further, I don't believe the Church is prone to punish people for having personal doctrinal struggles. At all. But you have to admit this was not personal- she picked up the rifle for a cause that she perceived to be greater than herself. If she has become a martyr and if the media has picked up steam, that's her doing. I mean- she started a website, a formal organization, picketed general conference, did interviews, apparently authored or at least commissioned and published a brief/critique of her disciplinary council, etc.

If she is a believer, then yes- it sucks to be her. She's not getting satisfaction on her personal query, and she has to promise to drop the crusade if she wants back in. But she has to also know that crusades have never been the way anything has changed in the Church, and was probably told in no uncertain terms to drop the crusade months ago. This is why the apparent lack of sympathy coming from me if my posts are coming across as harsh, judgmental, or hurtful.

Yes they are.

But now you have explained why, so I guess it is OK!

[Commando]

Yes they are.

But now you have explained why, so I guess it is OK!

It's not OK to make posts that come across as harsh, judgmental, or hurtful? Maybe that's why CJ was banned.

[Pelado]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did she not go to the New York Times rather than her initial disciplinary council? If she thought bringing attention to the issue via the media would be a better catalyst for change, then I have to say that was a bad call on her part. I just can't conclude anything else given the little info I have about the situation.

Prior to May 4 - claims she had apprised her bishop of her Ordain Women activity by email in March, August, and October 2013 and again in April 2014 and that he never responded or followed up on her invitation to speak in person on the matter

May 4 - Stake President requests "move restriction" placed on her membership records

May 5 - She meets with Stake President in which he places her on informal probation

May 9 - She physically moves to Utah

May 22 - Stake President emails letter detailing conditions of informal probation

June 8 - Bishop notifies her by email of disciplinary council scheduled in Virginia for June 22

June 11 - NYT article published concerning upcoming disciplinary councils on John & Kate: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/12/us...=tw-share&_r=1

Church response to questions about NYT article: "Actions to address a person’s membership and standing in their congregation are convened after lengthy periods of counseling and encouragement to reconsider behavior." http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/articl...line-questions

June 22 - Bishopric holds disciplinary council in Virginia

June 23 - Bishopric excommunicates her