Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[Non Sequitur]

Again, on a related note the church just announced that: "BYU-Idaho and Ensign College will offer three-year bachelor’s degrees through BYU-Pathway Worldwide!" The cost: about $7200 (USD) start to finish. It is cheaper for international students.

https://www.byupathway.edu

I think that is fantastic, and I applaud the Church for that. Do you have to be a member to enroll?

[The_Tick]

I think that is fantastic, and I applaud the Church for that. Do you have to be a member to enroll?

You do not have to be a member to enroll. You still have to do the EE, and you have to agree to live the WoW and the LoC. You also have to take the religion courses.

I paid about $7400 for my degree and it took 4 years. Was very much worth it.

[Northwestcoug]

I just found out a good Provo friend of mine has gone the way of the Remnant movement affiliated with Denver Snuffer. I remember him being very serious about his spirituality 25 years ago. In the time since then he became bishop. 10 years ago his wife describes a crisis of faith, and reconciling it with the 'knowledge' that JS never practiced polygamy. She's written 3 books since, and now the husband is a full-blown believer also.

Mrs. NWC and I went down a rabbit hole watching their videos. They seem to use very careful words, edging right up to the LDS version of apostasy but not exactly crossing. But they're very close. They claim essentially that JS and the church were in God's favor up until he died, but Brigham and his cohort introduced polygamy into the church, and because of that the church needs a reformation. There also seems to be an emphasis on the goodness of Hyrum Smith and a needed return to the patrilineal succession of priesthood power. I do not know their current membership status, though they are out and proud on YouTube.

The compartmentalization of these peoples' minds is amazing to me. They've concocted elaborate theories on how conspiracies and fraud have altered the official record on polygamy. They freely quote from the Joseph Smith papers and other early documents when it suits them, but reject the same records when it points to JS's polygamy. All in attempt to prop up their testimony of his original calling.

Anyways, here's a book of hers. Read it your testimony of your rational view of church history's peril:

https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smith-...2836135&sr=8-2

[LVAllen]

I just found out a good Provo friend of mine has gone the way of the Remnant movement affiliated with Denver Snuffer. I remember him being very serious about his spirituality 25 years ago. In the time since then he became bishop. 10 years ago his wife describes a crisis of faith, and reconciling it with the 'knowledge' that JS never practiced polygamy. She's written 3 books since, and now the husband is a full-blown believer also.

Mrs. NWC and I went down a rabbit hole watching their videos. They seem to use very careful words, edging right up to the LDS version of apostasy but not exactly crossing. But they're very close. They claim essentially that JS and the church were in God's favor up until he died, but Brigham and his cohort introduced polygamy into the church, and because of that the church needs a reformation. There also seems to be an emphasis on the goodness of Hyrum Smith and a needed return to the patrilineal succession of priesthood power. I do not know their current membership status, though they are out and proud on YouTube.

The compartmentalization of these peoples' minds is amazing to me. They've concocted elaborate theories on how conspiracies and fraud have altered the official record on polygamy. They freely quote from the Joseph Smith papers and other early documents when it suits them, but reject the same records when it points to JS's polygamy. All in attempt to prop up their testimony of his original calling.

Anyways, here's a book of hers. Read it your testimony of your rational view of church history's peril:

https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smith-...2836135&sr=8-2

Yeah, we don't really do reformations in the church. If you're an anti-Brighamite Josephite, you'd advocate either for yet another restoration or affiliation with one of the other groups, not a change in a church that lost the Lord's approval almost 200 years ago. Well, not unless you want to try and shortcut yourself into the church coffers because you covet that sweet sweet Avalon ride.

[Northwestcoug]

Learning about this remnant movement has been fascinating to me. Before, it seemed like there were 2 paths when confronted with the less savory details about JS; refashion your faith into something more nuanced than what you were taught, or just stop believing. These at least acknowledge the facts. Now the third way lets you completely reject reality and go on believing in JS as fervently as before.

[Jeff Lebowski]

My old neighbor growing up joined this group/movement 7-8 years ago. Adult kids were shocked when it happened.

[BigFatMeanie]

Instead of affiliating with Denver Snuffer, why not just go join David Whitmer's old church? The remains of it are still kicking (and are the sole owners of the temple lot in Missouri): https://www.churchofchrist1830.org/

Whitmer was a founding member of the Church of Christ on April 6, 1830, was one of the 3 witnesses to the Book of Mormon and never renounced it or his testimony, never practiced polygamy, was sustained at "President of the Church in Zion" (not just a stake president) and thus was second in succession as there was no Q12 or Q70 back then.

Seems like that would be a better home for the disaffected folks than Denver Snuffer's goofy org.

[Non Sequitur]

Instead of affiliating with Denver Snuffer, why not just go join David Whitmer's old church? The remains of it are still kicking (and are the sole owners of the temple lot in Missouri): https://www.churchofchrist1830.org/

Whitmer was a founding member of the Church of Christ on April 6, 1830, was one of the 3 witnesses to the Book of Mormon and never renounced it or his testimony, never practiced polygamy, was sustained at "President of the Church in Zion" (not just a stake president) and thus was second in succession as there was no Q12 or Q70 back then.

Seems like that would be a better home for the disaffected folks than Denver Snuffer's goofy org.

Do they let you drink coffee?

[Northwestcoug]

Do they let you drink coffee?

Lol. Perusing through that website makes me think their doctrinal schism happened after the WOW. I wouldn’t risk it. Best join the squishies who are ordaining women to be apostles.

[SteelBlue]

My old neighbor growing up joined this group/movement 7-8 years ago. Adult kids were shocked when it happened.

Pretty sure this is the group that a bunch of kooky/quirky moms in Redding left for.

[Omaha 680]

Learning about this remnant movement has been fascinating to me. Before, it seemed like there were 2 paths when confronted with the less savory details about JS; refashion your faith into something more nuanced than what you were taught, or just stop believing. These at least acknowledge the facts. Now the third way lets you completely reject reality and go on believing in JS as fervently as before.

I agree with this. I have family who flirted with Denver Snuffer when they left the church, but have since thrown it all out and I'm pretty sure they are atheist. I know they go to some humanist "church" to try to replicate the community aspect of the Church for their kids that they miss, but I don't get the vibe that they actually believe in the supernatural. The Snufferite path seems less sustainable to me than the traditional TBM path. For me it was much easier to just recognize that everyone is human and some of those humans who I love and who gave me principles and traditions that I value very much and that I use to shape my life also did some crazy and sometimes immoral things. Pretty much the same relationship I have with some of the American founding fathers.

[SteelBlue]

I agree with this. I have family who flirted with Denver Snuffer when they left the church, but have since thrown it all out and I'm pretty sure they are atheist. I know they go to some humanist "church" to try to replicate the community aspect of the Church for their kids that they miss, but I don't get the vibe that they actually believe in the supernatural. The Snufferite path seems less sustainable to me than the traditional TBM path. For me it was much easier to just recognize that everyone is human and some of those humans who I love and who gave me principles and traditions that I value very much and that I use to shape my life also did some crazy and sometimes immoral things. Pretty much the same relationship I have with some of the American founding fathers.

This pairs well with what I've seen here. Those who were attracted to this movement have all been the type who are so in touch with god that to hear them talk, he practically made their shopping lists. However, once RMN went with the science on vaccines, they were shook. Majority were anti-vax well before covid. Covid was the last straw.

[Northwestcoug]

This pairs well with what I've seen here. Those who were attracted to this movement have all been the type who are so in touch with god that to hear them talk, he practically made their shopping lists. However, once RMN went with the science on vaccines though, they were shook. Majority were anti-vax well before covid. Covid was the last straw.

Mrs. NWC's next door neighbor was a dyed in the wool multi-generational mormon. She's now in her late 60's. Last year when my wife went up to Calgary to visit her parents the neighbor confided to her that she didn't attend church or believe anymore. The breaking point? Not the usual suspects. It was when RMN encouraged the COVID vaccine. And then the doctrinal issues followed.

[Bo Diddley]

Mrs. NWC's next door neighbor was a dyed in the wool multi-generational mormon. She's now in her late 60's. Last year when my wife went up to Calgary to visit her parents the neighbor confided to her that she didn't attend church or believe anymore. The breaking point? Not the usual suspects. It was when RMN encouraged the COVID vaccine. And then the doctrinal issues followed.

I have to question how deep someone's convictions really are if that's the nexus to disbelief.

[Commando]

I have to question how deep someone's convictions really are if that's the nexus to disbelief.

seriously. Talk about hanging by a thread. But that's what happens when your diet of right wing indoctrination exceeds your diet of gospel doctrine.