If a female tried to get into the priesthood session of GC...

[Sizzle]

I'm asking sincerely because I don't know. What is the highest position that a woman can receive in the Catholic Church? A nun I would guess, which means... I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking.

[SeattleUte]

I don't think Ordain Women misjudged anything.

They got the media (including national media) involved, and the media are now openly criticizing the Church on the issue at hand.

The Church rarely receives pressure from within the Church, and so there is little impetus to change other than making those changes that serve the corporation.

That a few hundred women could elicit this response is remarkable. If church leaders were wise, they wouldn't even address it. Instead, they make PR blunder after blunder and turn it into a bigger story than it would otherwise be.

The most disgusting thing said in conference was when Dallin Oaks said that people should worry less about rights and more about responsibility. First of all, this was an obvious shot at Kate Kelly, leader of Ordain Women and a Washington DC human rights attorney. Secondly, since when are human rights less important than responsibility? Is that something he would have said to a slave? Worry about your responsibility, not your human rights! What an imbecile.

Oaks is our friend, Sooner. He's a a terrible lawyer! Who would have thought.

[SeattleUte]

I'm asking sincerely because I don't know. What is the highest position that a woman can receive in the Catholic Church? A nun I would guess, which means... I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking.

The Catholic Church is also in a lot of trouble. The advantage it has is two-fold: In a sense it midwifed our civilization, and its pope seems a lot smarter than Dallin Oaks.

[falafel]

I don't think Ordain Women misjudged anything.

They got the media (including national media) involved, and the media are now openly criticizing the Church on the issue at hand.

The Church rarely receives pressure from within the Church, and so there is little impetus to change other than making those changes that serve the corporation.

That a few hundred women could elicit this response is remarkable. If church leaders were wise, they wouldn't even address it. Instead, they make PR blunder after blunder and turn it into a bigger story than it would otherwise be.

The most disgusting thing said in conference was when Dallin Oaks said that people should worry less about rights and more about responsibility. First of all, this was an obvious shot at Kate Kelly, leader of Ordain Women and a Washington DC human rights attorney. Secondly, since when are human rights less important than responsibility? Is that something he would have said to a slave? Worry about your responsibility, not your human rights! What an imbecile.

Agree. That line disturbed me.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'm asking sincerely because I don't know. What is the highest position that a woman can receive in the Catholic Church? A nun I would guess, which means... I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Here you go:

http://www.womensordination.org

[Vic Vega]

Sooner and SU. You have both spent more time worrying about church than I have again.

Come on back to church so it doesn't have to consume you so much.

[SoonerCoug]

Sooner and SU. You have both spent more time worrying about church than I have again.

Come on back to church so it doesn't have to consume you so much.

It must be nice not to really care. People like you are why black men were not allowed to have the priesthood until 1978. They just didn't worry, played along, and paid their tithing. Why worry about injustice? Who cares about discrimination, right?

After all, God is in charge, so things are exactly the way God wants them. Right?

[Surfah]

It must be nice not to really care. People like you are why black men were not allowed to have the priesthood until 1978. They just didn't worry, played along, and paid their tithing. Why worry about injustice? Who cares about discrimination, right?

After all, God is in charge, so things are exactly the way God wants them. Right?

People like you? I'd expect that from SU, but it's a bit surprising from you. Is someone messing with your mice?

[Vic Vega]

Still just fighting the biggest oppression in the world for the greater good. Lol. You've got issues dude and all I know is they aren't the ones you harp on here. I've had days of not believing at all recently but your issues are beyond that. You are so emotional on the issues you look for great evil in every statement and talk.

The only exposure I will have to GC I will have is your quote. Great point Oaks, we should spend more focus on controlling what we can in our own lives rather than ripping others down. I don't see what's so evil about that. I think you should focus more on becoming a better person and worry less about what Mormons are doing as well, so I think it's a great quote for this discussion as well.

And Ftr I am more annoyed CS seems to wanted conventional Mo's to shut up and not debate back. This place would be awesome if the tone would be more reasonable. But you and SU are morons. At least you seem like a real person and not a mods tool to foster conversation. (Not saying SU is, I'm saying he is a charicuture when he posts here)

[San Juan Sun]

Still just fighting the biggest oppression in the world for the greater good. Lol. You've got issues dude and all I know is they aren't the ones you harp on here. I've had days of not believing at all recently but your issues are beyond that. You are so emotional on the issues you look for great evil in every statement and talk.

The only exposure I will have to GC I will have is your quote. Great point Oaks, we should spend more focus on controlling what we can in our own lives rather than ripping others down. I don't see what's so evil about that. I think you should focus more on becoming a better person and worry less about what Mormons are doing as well, so I think it's a great quote for this discussion as well.

And Ftr I am more annoyed CS seems to wanted conventional Mo's to shut up and not debate back. This place would be awesome if the tone would be more reasonable. But you and SU are morons. At least you seem like a real person and not a mods tool to foster conversation. (Not saying SU is, I'm saying he is a charicuture when he posts here)

Are you saying that SU is JL/creekster's tool to drum up board activity? LOL.

BTW, admitting you didn't hear Elder Oaks talk is a poor jumping off point for discussing it.

[SoonerCoug]

Great point Oaks, we should spend more focus on controlling what we can in our own lives rather than ripping others down.

This is not what he said. What he said is that responsibility is more important than human rights. I am saying that this is absolutely, unequivocally wrong.

It isn't difficult to see how wrong this is. Imagine a person unjustly imprisoned or enslaved. Then imagine the slaveholder saying: Your rights don't matter. What matters is your responsibility.

What Oaks said is false, and it matters.

[Northwestcoug]

Here you go:

http://www.womensordination.org

I like the Ordain Women's website better. The Catholic one looks almost like an online floral website.

[San Juan Sun]

This is not what he said. What he said is that responsibility is more important than human rights. I am saying that this is absolutely, unequivocally wrong.

It isn't difficult to see how wrong this is. Imagine a person unjustly imprisoned or enslaved. Then imagine the slaveholder saying: Your rights don't matter. What matters is your responsibility.

What Oaks said is false, and it matters.

What I took Oaks to mean was that focusing on one's priesthood responsibility is more important that an incorrect notion (in his opinion) of human rights.

I don't think he meant it as you've described it, but also see your side of it.

I do think that spending most of his talk convincing women (ironically not allowed to be present) that:
- they have access to all of the blessings of the priesthood through the PH holders in their sphere
- that the church is powerless to extend the priesthood further
- and that women have valued roles within the church that obviate the need/desire for ordaining women

all pretty much does nothing to help the church, but engaged the OW group in a needlessly clumsy way.

[Vic Vega]

Victor Frankle says your wrong. It's debatable but you are assurting moral superiority to your position. So self righteous and judgemental ;-)

I don't mind the debate. Expect to get called out for taking huge leaps and do being self righteous when I am on here. (The self righteous bit is irony only, since that gets thrown at the conventional mo position quickly)

[Mormon Red Death]

I'm asking sincerely because I don't know. What is the highest position that a woman can receive in the Catholic Church? A nun I would guess, which means... I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Dr of the church