The New Yorker: Prop. 8 a last stand

[SeattleUte]

No, it is not a shame. I think we should also exercise discretion and good judgment on this board. I don't agree with everything I hear in church, and I make those disagreements know when necessary or useful, but I try to use appropriate language and appropriate tone and I do go out of my way to avoid offense, as opposed to using offense as my stock in trade, for fun, or for anonymous jollies. I wish we would do that here as well.

That is just my personal view.

I think if someone calls someone else "a racist" those are fighting words, and the accuser had better be prepared to back up the claim with something legitimate, like evidence or logic, and not ultimately nothing more than parody of a forty year old Black Panther slogan. It's the most despicable form of PC when someone can't address actions by members of a minority group in a judgmental way without having inevitably to confront this old default response.

Yes, even this place should have a code of conduct. But I only see people here resorting to threats of extra-board action and name calling in defense of their religion.

Another thing, in my opinion Prop. 8 proponents now using AA support as their bludgeon are being are being disingenuous. The interests of poor blacks has always been among many of these people's lowests priorities. I don't think it's any conincidence that Southern Baptism was formed in reaction to abolitionism, and Mormonism has had its sad and tortured history with race, and these institutions are the most vocal and energetic opponents of gay marriage.

[tooblue]

Tooblue, you lost with this nonsense. Nobody here believes this. Nobody with a life except apparently you believes it.

You sound like a sports fan trying to salvage some sort of moral victory in a loss … lol

[tooblue]

I think if someone calls someone else "a racist" those are fighting words, and the accuser had better be prepared to back up the claim with something legitimate, like evidence or logic, and not ultimately nothing more than parody of a forty year old Black Panther slogan. It's the most despicable form of PC when someone can't address actions by members of a minority group in a judgmental way without having inevitably to confront this old default response.

Yes, even this place should have a code of conduct. But I only see people here resorting to threats of extra-board action and name calling in defense of their religion.

Another thing, in my opinion Prop. 8 proponents now using AA support as their bludgeon are being are being disingenuous. The interests of poor blacks has always been among many of these people's lowests priorities. I don't think it's any conincidence that Southern Baptism was formed in reaction to abolitionism, and Mormonism has had its sad and tortured history with race, and these institutions are the most vocal and energetic opponents of gay marriage.

I did back it up with sound logic and evidence that you have not countered. I'll ask the question again -- have you had a conversation about this subject with a visible minority? Or, do you still insist that visible minorities are not smart enough to make an informed decision. If you continue to insist that individuals of a visible minority you deem inferior socially and educationally are incapable of making informed decisions that makes you a racist.

[tooblue]

I talked about levels of education and correlations with negative feelings towards gays and a tendency to make decisions with less information gathering.

I also mentioned the fact that minorities are less likely to persue higher levels of education. I did not attempt to say why such was the case.

I did not talk about "standards of knowledge and understanding upon specific persons."

10th grade dropout is more likely to be intolerant of gays than Stanford PhD.
10th grade dropout is less likely to watch Meet The Press and 60 Minutes than Stanford PhD.
Black man is more likely to be an 10th grad dropout than a white man.

Therefore, Black man is more likely than white man to be intolerant of gays and have less relevant information when voting than white man.

My factual premises might be totally wrong and I am open to be educated on those points. But I really don't think it is racist to say the "therefore" statement given the facts.

Your comments are like profiling ... is profiling a form of racism?

[The Rambam]

Your comments are like profiling ... is profiling a form of racism?

Not if based on normative statistical data.

[tooblue]

Not if based on normative statistical data.

Profiling is based on normative statistical data and it is a form of racism. Otherwise why are leaders of visible minority communities outraged by the practice?

[tooblue]

Profiling is based on normative statistical data and it is a form of racism. Otherwise why are leaders of visible minority communities outraged by the practice?

Police departments across North America have had to suspend the practice of profiling or at least declare publicly that they have suspended the practice. Your factual data is no less offensive and should also be suspended.

[The Rambam]

Your factual data is no less offensive and should also be suspended.

Well, I am no longer confused. I understand your position. I reject it. We can agree to disagree.

[SeattleUte]

I did back it up with sound logic and evidence that you have not countered. I'll ask the question again -- have you had a conversation about this subject with a visible minority? Or, do you still insist that visible minorities are not smart enough to make an informed decision. If you continue to insist that individuals of a visible minority you deem inferior socially and educationally are incapable of making informed decisions that makes you a racist.

Speaking of self-parody (LOL!):

"Visible minority is a term used primarily in Canada to describe persons who are not of the majority race in a given population. In March, 2007, the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination described the term as racist because it singles out a group."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_minority

I hope you and your disturbed ramblings about visible minorities stay the hell away from African Americans and gays.

[tooblue]

I hope you and your disturbed ramblings about visible minorities stay the hell away from African Americans and gays.

You are so lost you don't know where your argument begins and only now discover why I use the term visible minority in the first place? Unfortunately you continue to put your ignorance on full display with attempts at denigration that are undermined by the very use of the offensive terms quoted from your text above

LOL is right. And no, I'm not laughing with you! Oh, the irony the irony!

[tooblue]

You are so lost you don't know where your argument begins and only now discover why I use the term visible minority in the first place? Unfortunately you continue to put your ignorance on full display with attempts at denigration that are undermined by the very use of the offensive terms quoted from your text above

LOL is right. And no, I'm not laughing with you! Oh, the irony the irony!

Seriously Seattle -- you weren't even aware that visible minority might be considered offensive? You had to really think about it and go look it up?

[SeattleUte]

Seriously Seattle -- you weren't even aware that visible minority might be considered offensive? You had to really think about it and go look it up?

Why did you use it repeatedly if it was offensive? Why did you use it if you knew it was a racist epithet? Do you normally use racial epithets in every day speech?

I happily plead guilty to never having heard "visible minority" before. Apparently it's a term only familiar to Canadians. I asked in Thet Press Room if anyone had ever heard of it because, as I stated in that thread, it certainly seemed racist to me from the time you started using it. I didn't have to look it up to know. No one had heard of it and you didn't answer.

I think you should come clean that you didn't know you were using a racist term to defend Proposion 8. Frankly, I'd respect you more if you did that than continue to assert you knew what you were doing all along.

What is wrong with the term is it connotes the very pecking order of minorities that you attempt to set up on dismissing gays' civil rights. Hence your usage of it in the very way condemned by the United Nations.

By the way, I'm not the one who singled out blacks as having overwhelmingly supported Prop. 8. It's the pollsters and Prop. 8 supporters who have done that. Prop. 8 supporters' mendacity requires some frank response.

[TripletDaddy]

Why did you use it repeatedly if it was offensive? Why did you use it if you knew it was a racist epithet? Do you normally use racial epithets in every day speech?

I happily plead guilty to never having heard "visible minority" before. Apparently it's a term only familiar to Canadians. I asked in Thet Press Room if anyone had ever heard of it because, as I stated in that thread, it certainly seemed racist to me from the time you started using it. I didn't have to look it up to know. No one had heard of it and you didn't answer.

I think you should come clean that you didn't know you were using a racist term to defend Proposion 8. Frankly, I'd respect you more if you did that than continue to assert you knew what you were doing all along.

What is wrong with the term is it connotes the very pecking order of minorities that you attempt to set up on dismissing gays' civil rights. Hence your usage of it in the very way condemned by the United Nations.

By the way, I'm not the one who singled out blacks as having overwhelmingly supported Prop. 8. It's the pollsters and Prop. 8 supporters who have done that. Prop. 8 supporters' mendacity requires some frank response.

You probably also think ignorant means rude and funner is a word.

[SeattleUte]

you probably also think ignorant means rude and funner is a word.

lol.

[tooblue]

Why did you use it repeatedly if it was offensive? Why did you use it if you knew it was a racist epithet? Do you normally use racial epithets in every day speech?

I happily plead guilty to never having heard "visible minority" before. Apparently it's a term only familiar to Canadians. I asked in Thet Press Room if anyone had ever heard of it because, as I stated in that thread, it certainly seemed racist to me from the time you started using it. I didn't have to look it up to know. No one had heard of it and you didn't answer.

I think you should come clean that you didn't know you were using a racist term to defend Proposion 8. Frankly, I'd respect you more if you did that than continue to assert you knew what you were doing all along.

What is wrong with the term is it connotes the very pecking order of minorities that you attempt to set up on dismissing gays' civil rights. Hence your usage of it in the very way condemned by the United Nations.

By the way, I'm not the one who singled out blacks as having overwhelmingly supported Prop. 8. It's the pollsters and Prop. 8 supporters who have done that. Prop. 8 supporters' mendacity requires some frank response.

I'm beginning to believe you truly are ignorant of the bigotry of your commentary. Only NOW are you even considering whether or not 'visible minority' might be considered insensitive ... honestly? You now assert --a day later-- that it certainly seemed racist?

Seattle, you are the parody. This thread you started is your monologue. You are so misguided in your attempts to denigrate a religion you are willing to espouse abject bigotry to do it. Your massively impressive intellect must surely be spinning at this point but think about it.