D&C Changes

[Uncle Ted]

D&C 76 and D&C 138 are just two examples of revelations received after looking at or reading other material. Maybe the source text wasn't necessary in and of itself, but the value came from it putting Joseph Smith on the path that led to the revelation.

One has to wonder what kind of revelation would have been received from Joseph watching TV or surfing the internet.

[splitbamboo]

I think this is right on. It is also extremely weird when you think about what it entails.

You mean that he was a prophet that received revelation from God?

[Indy Coug]

One has to wonder what kind of revelation would have been received from Joseph watching TV or surfing the internet.

I once got a revelation while listening to my CEO talk.

[Harry Tic]

You mean that he was a prophet that received revelation from God?

No. I certainly don't question that. But that such incredible effort was expended on the part of so many people for literally thousands of years in order to place into Joseph's custody a physical artifact that he by all accounts didn't even look at when he was translating. To a layperson such as myself, that seems a comically inefficient way of doing things. Or, in a word, weird.

[beefytee]

Yes. It doesn't appear that God is interested in localized efficiencies.

Why waste time conserving energy when the resources of the whole universe are at your disposal.

[Harry Tic]

Yes. It doesn't appear that God is interested in localized efficiencies.

Why waste time conserving energy when the resources of the whole universe are at your disposal.

Whether or not your response is tongue in cheek, it's actually pretty interesting. On the one hand, we like to think of God as intervening as minimally and as efficiently as possible in the universe, so as to oblige us to do most of the heavy lifting ourselves: it's the idea that revelation as such is only given when strictly necessary and when other means of solving a problem are not available. On the other hand, we are increasingly comfortable with God taking a very long path to accomplish his purposes: my ways are not your ways, and all that. For example, an increasing number of members of the church seems comfortable with saying that God let natural selection do its thing until the groundwork was laid for him to infuse homo sapiens with spirit. That's about as inefficient and wasteful as it gets.

So, which is it? Do we worship a parsimonious God? Or a somewhat sloppy improviser?

[Pelado]

Whether or not your response is tongue in cheek, it's actually pretty interesting. On the one hand, we like to think of God as intervening as minimally and as efficiently as possible in the universe, so as to oblige us to do most of the heavy lifting ourselves: it's the idea that revelation as such is only given when strictly necessary and when other means of solving a problem are not available. On the other hand, we are increasingly comfortable with God taking a very long path to accomplish his purposes: my ways are not your ways, and all that. For example, an increasing number of members of the church seems comfortable with saying that God let natural selection do its thing until the groundwork was laid for him to infuse homo sapiens with spirit. That's about as inefficient and wasteful as it gets.

So, which is it? Do we worship a parsimonious God? Or a somewhat sloppy improviser?

...that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not...

[beefytee]

... God let natural selection do its thing until the groundwork was laid for him to infuse homo sapiens with spirit. That's about as inefficient and wasteful as it gets.

I'd love to hear more on this. What are the more efficient ways to make this happen? Are we talking test-tubing Adam and dropping him off on earth or something?

So, which is it? Do we worship a parsimonious God? Or a somewhat sloppy improviser?

I fail to see how God is a sloppy improviser if he isn't parsimonious.

If I were to liken him to a CEO, I would consider him a pro-growth (pun intended) CEO as opposed to a cost cutting streamliner.

[Moliere]

No. I certainly don't question that. But that such incredible effort was expended on the part of so many people for literally thousands of years in order to place into Joseph's custody a physical artifact that he by all accounts didn't even look at when he was translating. To a layperson such as myself, that seems a comically inefficient way of doing things. Or, in a word, weird.

Lots of things in this church are inefficient. It's the Mormon way. Since God is unchangeable, he has apparently always been inefficient. (TIC)

I'll hold to my theory that we are all in Plato's cave (includes SU and any atheists or other orthodoxies) and one day we'll all walk out and be amazed at how wrong we all were....but thanks to a loving god(s) it won't matter as long as we tried.

[Indy Coug]

God uses a different set of metrics. What may otherwise appear as inefficient will eventually be realized to be incredibly effective.

[Uncle Ted]

Thanks for linking. It is really cool that the church released a complete side-by-side list of the changes. If you are cynical, you will say that they were just beating others to the punch, as it was bound to happen soon anyway, but it is still cool.

I agree with the post that the intro to OD2 is very interesting. Especially the part that says

Early in its history, Church leaders stopped conferring the priesthood on black males of African descent. Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice. Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter this practice and prayerfully sought guidance.

Never mind the 1949 First Presidency statement...

First Presidency statement (President George Albert Smith)

August 17, 1949

The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time. The prophets of the Lord have made several statements as to the operation of the principle. President Brigham Young said: "Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness? It comes in consequence of their fathers rejecting the power of the holy priesthood, and the law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the holy priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to."

President Wilford Woodruff made the following statement: "The day will come when all that race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have."

The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintain their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes.

The First Presidency

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_a...ood/Statements