D&C Changes

[Jeff Lebowski]

So your answer is "No"?

No, my answer is "yes". I guarantee you that the statement I quoted is in the church's historical record.

[Clark Addison]

"no clear insights" my eye. The entire intro represents significant progress but we still aren't being honest.

I agree, but the lack of honesty in this statement, while not perfect, is preferable to some of the lack of honesty we have seen in the past.

[Indy Coug]

No, my answer is "yes". I guarantee you that the statement I quoted is in the church's historical record.

What document did you get the quoted comment you used?

[Pheidippides]

So your answer is "No"?

Official declaration No. 1/2: I, Brigham Young, hereby declare that black people can't have the priesthood because I am a racist tyrant.

I'm sure that's somewhere in the Journal of Discourses.

[Indy Coug]

Official declaration No. 1/2: I, Brigham Young, hereby declare that black people can't have the priesthood because I am a racist tyrant.

I'm sure that's somewhere in the Journal of Discourses.

So that quote is the genesis of the policy itself, or merely a statement made after the policy was instituted at some indeterminate point in the past?

[Pheidippides]

So that quote is the genesis of the policy itself, or merely a statement made after the policy was instituted at some indeterminate point in the past?

Sorry, Indy. I learned long ago not to play your leading question game. If you care to get the answer, the materials are openly available. I can even suggest things for you to read. But I don't think you care.

[Indy Coug]

Sorry, Indy. I learned long ago not to play your leading question game. If you care to get the answer, the materials are openly available. I can even suggest things for you to read. But I don't think you care.

I don't really give a shit if you want to play "the game" or not. I've discovered what that amounts to is that simply you know damn well what the answer is and you don't want to admit it. I consider the point I was making conceded by you and we can now move onto other things to hold over the church's head.

[Northwestcoug]

"no clear insights" my eye. The entire intro represents significant progress but we still aren't being honest.

Hell, my educated guess about the origins of the ban is closer to the truth than that statement. It's ridiculous that the church still can't state the obvious.

I would even quibble with the word 'significant'. It is progress though.

[Jeff Lebowski]

What document did you get the quoted comment you used?

So that quote is the genesis of the policy itself, or merely a statement made after the policy was instituted at some indeterminate point in the past?

Indy old friend. They have this new thing called "Google". You should check it out.

Full speech here:

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/brigham1852feb5_priesthoodandblacks.htm

Note the source:

(Brigham Young Addresses, Ms d 1234, Box 48, folder 3, dated Feb. 5, 1852,
located in the LDS Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah)

[Indy Coug]

Indy old friend. They have this new thing called "Google". You should check it out.

Full speech here:

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/brigham1852feb5_priesthoodandblacks.htm

Note the source:

(Brigham Young Addresses, Ms d 1234, Box 48, folder 3, dated Feb. 5, 1852,
located in the LDS Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah)

Feb 5,1852 - Brigham Young announces policy of denying priesthood to all those black African ancestry, even "if there never was a prophet, or apostle of Jesus Christ spoke it before" because "negroes are the children of old Cain....any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot hold the priesthood."

OK, this is what I was getting at. The section bolded and underlined above was commentary supplied by you, not a direct quote of some synopsis in JD.

[Northwestcoug]

Indy old friend. They have this new thing called "Google". You should check it out.

Full speech here:

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/brigham1852feb5_priesthoodandblacks.htm

Note the source:

(Brigham Young Addresses, Ms d 1234, Box 48, folder 3, dated Feb. 5, 1852,
located in the LDS Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah)

Ah, it's examples like these why all the references to the History of the Church have been deleted from the D&C. Back when hardly no one owned or read the 7 volumes, it wasn't an issue. Now that it's on Google, though...(the same goes for the Journal of Discourses)

[Pheidippides]

I don't really give a shit if you want to play "the game" or not. I've discovered what that amounts to is that simply you know damn well what the answer is and you don't want to admit it. I consider the point I was making conceded by you and we can now move onto other things to hold over the church's head.

I don't care what you consider conceded because you are wrong. Please rest assured that it is entirely personal. I don't care to interact with you further here or elsewhere on any religious matter, so please now feel free to take the last word on the subject without fear of response.

[Moliere]

Helpful that my lesson is on the restoration of the priesthood.

Are you going to mention that those revelations were redrafted some 1-2 years after 1830 to include the word "Priesthood"?

[Indy Coug]

I don't care what you consider conceded because you are wrong. Please rest assured that it is entirely personal. I don't care to interact with you further here or elsewhere on any religious matter, so please now feel free to take the last word on the subject without fear of response.

[Uncle Ted]

Thanks for linking. It is really cool that the church released a complete side-by-side list of the changes. If you are cynical, you will say that they were just beating others to the punch, as it was bound to happen soon anyway, but it is still cool.

I agree with the post that the intro to OD2 is very interesting. Especially the part that says

Early in its history, Church leaders stopped conferring the priesthood on black males of African descent. Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice. Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter this practice and prayerfully sought guidance.

I think Brigham Young just rolled over in his grave. Very cool.