Kids and missions

[PaloAltoCougar]

However, in Austria you could have experienced all of this and more wonderful things with a fraulein companion instead of on a Mormon mission. Don't you wonder if that might not have been better? Be honest.

An apt question. I know for a fact that, at least in certain ways, it would have been much better. I took my wife to Austria some 23 years after my mission. One evening, we had a fine meal at a superb restaurant including interesting conversation with some nonmember locals, attended a concert in the Festspielhaus that featured Joshua Bell as soloist, and retired to a fine hotel for a night of connubial bliss. I clearly remembering arising the next morning and saying to my wife, still in bed, "This is WAY better than waking up with Elder Pyle [an insufferable companion from 1973]." But even with that moron, I learned a few things so it wasn't a total waste.

My point isn't that the mission experience is always the best experience a young man or woman could conceivably have (for many, it simply isn't), but it can be a very good one, certainly not one that should induce rage in a skeptical observer. I believe, deeply, that most 18-21 year olds do not have the breadth and quality of experiences during those years that a missionary has.

Borg, back to you... Pretty much every missionary parent feels the way you do. I remember when filsdepac embarked on his mission to Geneva. That was when they had the "Welcome to the MTC" meeting with the new missionaries and their parents. It featured the only closing prayer that I hoped would never end, as I kept thinking about how inadequate I'd been as a father, whether the people in France and Switzerland would realize what a great kid I was sending them, and if he was ready for the challenges I knew awaited him. But he did fine, and yours will too. There are some people in Russia whose lives will be made better by her coming.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Borg, I can't imagine the trepidation that comes with a child serving a mission. Though I feel that my mission really shaped the person I am(hopefully more decent than awful) like Cardiac I fear pushing my kids towards serving.

Though faith seems to be an easy attribute to preach than practice at times, it seems parenting a child on a mission is when it is needed most. Best wishes to her and your family.

[OceanBlue]

This website is so helpful because of topics like this. We are converts with a male HS school junior. He has a half brother older and out of his life so basically a only child. He does not want to go on a mission. If I'm honest I'd rather him not go either, his Mom feels the same way. He loves going to Church and we have never had a lick of trouble from him. I think his reluctance to go to BYU stems from him not wanting to go on a mission. My point in sharing is we always hear how he should go from other members but its not that easy for us. Reading different views here is very helpful.

[clackamascoug]

Borg, you may be sending out a cutiepie, but what you're going to get when she comes home is a cutiepie (squared). My nephew married a RM that went to Russia, and she is one of the most dynamic, interesting people I've ever met. Her perspective world view, along with her superior intellect sets her apart from every other female she encounters.

That said... you have legitimate feelings.

[smokymountainrain]

I have a cutie pie daughter that immediately went to the stake president (day after) the day after conference was over to go on a mission. She was 19 at the time, and turned 20 just recently.

And in the blink of an eye, her papers were in, and shortly thereafter, received her mission call before I even could take a breath.

Now...I LOVED my mission (London South), and it really did transform my life, and set such a great foundation for me.

However...I have such a different 'feeling' about my daughter. She is and has always been a cutie pie, and the feelings I have are so mixed.
1) I am so excited for her to have the same kinds of spiritual experiences that I did and solidify her testimony etc.
2) I am SO scared because she is going to Russia...so far away, and I am already worried to death about her safety.

I'm torn. Excited and scared at the same time.

Is this normal for a parent to feel about their princess going off in the world to serve a mission? To me, she seems so unprepared to hit the world. Her life is filled with fluffy bunnies and flowers. No real concept of mean people, or people that could harm her. Sigh...I'm sure the Lord will take care of her...and I guess it's my lack of faith showing.

Any other parent feel the same way?

Borg, I have three daughters and hope, for the same reasons that cause you to worry, that none of them want to serve missions.

[SeattleUte]

This website is so helpful because of topics like this. We are converts with a male HS school junior. He has a half brother older and out of his life so basically a only child. He does not want to go on a mission. If I'm honest I'd rather him not go either, his Mom feels the same way. He loves going to Church and we have never had a lick of trouble from him. I think his reluctance to go to BYU stems from him not wanting to go on a mission. My point in sharing is we always hear how he should go from other members but its not that easy for us. Reading different views here is very helpful.

In the fifteenth century when Christians started telling their church "NO!" many paid with their lives. Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English, and that book was the foundation for the work of genius we call the King James Version, my personal favorite among Bibles. For over a thousand years religion was the current and prevailing authoritarian system.

Europeans telling their church "NO!" was absolutely a necessary event leading to the foundation of our American republic and the return to earth in these latter days of representative government. Spinoza was the father of the Enlightenment (in much the same way as Paul, another apostate Jew, begat Christianity), and his notable preocupation was Biblical exegesis. A philosopher had to express disbelief in angels and miracles in order to liberate and enable the scientists to build our modern liberal societies with so much plenty, almost nonexistent infant mortality rates, etc.

Today in most places outside of the Middle East religion has lost its authoritarian hold. However, religion still aspires to authoritarianism, by any means available. Psychological pressure is often potent enough. LDS are often glad to find out if they tell their church "NO!" they will not pay with their lives, at most only suffer a few cold shoulders from family and/or friends. Often they regard that as better than the alternative.

[tooblue]

This website is so helpful because of topics like this. We are converts with a male HS school junior. He has a half brother older and out of his life so basically a only child. He does not want to go on a mission. If I'm honest I'd rather him not go either, his Mom feels the same way. He loves going to Church and we have never had a lick of trouble from him. I think his reluctance to go to BYU stems from him not wanting to go on a mission. My point in sharing is we always hear how he should go from other members but its not that easy for us. Reading different views here is very helpful.

I was born and raised in the church, in Salt Lake City. My family on both sides have been LDS for generations—pioneer stock etc. However, growing up, I basically took myself to church each Sunday, especially in my teen years. It helped that there were a lot of pretty girls in the Ward My two older brothers served missions. It was completely their choice. My parents have never been very active, until now (rather, I should say my Dad is active now and my mother supports him). Truth be told, growing up my mother didn't really want either of my brothers or, me to go on a mission. My father didn't serve a mission and he was supportive either way. As was the case with my older brothers, the decision was also completely up to me.

At the end of high school I wasn't certain a mission was in my future. I liked going to church but ... I just wasn't certain. Believe it or not I didn't need the Internet to learn all about my religion and it's history. The Down town Salt Lake Library was one of my favourite places to spend time in, in high school. Somewhere, at some point, after I turned eighteen, something changed. I won't go into it here. Needless to say I have always been blessed with a significant capacity for spiritual experiences. Simply stated, I came to an understanding that I needed to serve a mission.

The choice to serve a mission was one of the best decisions I have ever made. It changed me. Though it's cliché, I found myself on my mission. What's more, I have made personal connections with a great many people that still influence my life for the better to this day. In the interest of full disclosure, I met my wife on my mission. But, I also met a great many good people who I continue to interact with. Last year we welcomed into our home the son of one of my former companions as an exchange student from Germany. We also sent our oldest son to live with them in Europe for three weeks.

Speaking of my oldest son, he is eighteen and he has graduated from high school. Had the announcement been made before October, he would be on a mission now. Instead he enrolled in a one year certificate college program and he plans to go on a mission as soon as this semester is done in April. It may not work out that way. His papers are complete but, we are waiting on his physical before we send them to Salt Lake.

I have very few worries about him serving a mission. It is and always has been his choice. He is ready. He is one of five sons. I hope each of my sons chooses to serve a mission. It also will be their choice. Of course, my feelings might be different because I do not have daughters. But, I doubt it. My wife is—obviously—a returned missionary.

My only thoughts are that it is advisable to be careful with overt or, a lack of encouragement. I am confident my wife and I struck a good balance with our oldest son. We have watched other parents in admiration, as they have been careful with their encouragement. As an aside, one of my son’s good friends in the Ward got his mission call yesterday. He is going to Calgary, Alberta. We have also watched other parents struggle with their "honest" feelings on the subject. We have friends with two sons, both high school graduates that are floundering, at this point, in life.

I think it would be in these parents best interest to be openly honest with themselves and their sons. But, I recognize, (church) culturally, it is a hard thing to do. I have always agreed with the sentiment that a mission may not be the best option for every young man. I discovered that "truth" while on my mission. I served with far too many companions who should not have served a mission. They were miserable. And that would make the experience simply not worth it. But, for me, it was truly two of the best years of my life.

[LA Ute]

Borg, my daughter is 16 and is a cutie pie like yours. Still, she's wanted to serve a mission since she was 13 or so and the age-change announcement was very exciting to her. I've always been open with her about my mission - it was a great spiritual cornerstone to my life and that i would do it again in a heartbeat, but that I wanted to go and was excited to go. We tell her if she feels the Lord calling her to go, she should, and we will support her and so will he. We said the same thing to our sons and I have always said that to the YM I've worked with. Still, I know I will worry like crazy while she is out.

I have always agreed with the sentiment that a mission may not be the best option for every young man. I discovered that "truth" while on my mission. I served with far too many companions who should not have served a mission. They were miserable. And that would make the experience simply not worth it. But, for me, it was truly two of the best years of my life.

I agree. I personally think guys who serve missions but don't really want to be there often do damage -- sometimes lasting damage -- to themselves and others. I think the biggest favor LDS parents can do for their kids is to let them decide in an honest, prayerful manner whether to serve.

[CardiacCoug]

A couple of weeks ago our doorbell rang at 8:30 p.m. on a Friday. I thought what the hell? Nobody except Amazon rings ever rings our doorbell, unless it's trouble (one time some kids in baggy trousers came by saying they were working for a security firm (undisclosed name) and surveying homes to see whether they were operating security systems; one of our neighbors actually was dopey enough to answer the survey and say no!). My mother in law came and told me that there were two Mormon missionaries and it seemed they knew me. I went to the door and sure enough, there they were. Two beautiful boys, very smartly dressed, with the plastic badges, etc.

They made the pitch. I was surprised at my reaction. My heart went out to those boys. What I felt was love and pity. I wanted to invite them in just to be nice, offer them food, but I knew I'd catch hell. My kids were being put to bed, we were all winding down, etc. I just stopped their pitch and said I wasn't interested, I'd been on a mission, and knew their message too well. They asked me where I went, and I told them Ecuador. I could tell they knew this about me.

Then I said, let me give you some advice. Don't tract, it's a complete waste of time, and it's counterproductive. It really annoys people around here. They asked me what they should do. I said network. Rely on members to hook you up. Then what the senior comp did (I assume he was the senior comp, he was the tallest by far and closest to me) made me smile. He lifted his arm, turned and swept it at my neighbors' houses, and said, 'Tell us, where shall we go?' I said all my neighbors' hearts were hard. Nobody around here is ready for Gospel. When they left I told them they had really cool looking overcoats (there were dressed better than we ever were by far).

When I closed the door I suddenly felt white hot rage. Not at them, not at all. At the LDS Church and their parents for lacking the requisite empathy to save them from this.

Don't send or pressure your kids to go on missions; ease them out of it.

Missions can be an incredible experience for people. I had a companion who was a C and D student in high school, never applied to college, and never studied in his entirely life before his mission. He finally learned to apply himself and study and learn Russian -- ended up speaking well above average missionary Russian. He learned to work hard and apply himself academically and had no skills in these areas prior to the mission. He went back to Arizona State after the mission and was a straight A student in accounting based on study skills and discipline he learned on the mission.

Here's the thing about missionaries and I guess specifically tracting that I've been thinking about lately though:

Tracting and teaching discussions are sort of modeled after two things that were commonplace decades ago but are no longer part of our culture: 1. door-to-door salesmanship and 2. parlor culture.

1. People don't want (even clean-cut and polite) strangers knocking on their door and interrupting them at home. It's creepy and annoying. It's unnatural. It's counterproductive. Missionaries should be doing service when they don't have anything else to do.

2. Sitting down and chatting with people in the front room of a home really isn't the way people interact anymore. Sure, that's probably an unfortunate thing and the older folks in the Church might deny that but it's reality -- it's just not a form of interaction with which the younger generation is familiar. Hell the only type of "parlor culture" interactions I've ever had are through the Church.

Incidentally the parlor culture argument probably applies to home teaching too, right? If we were starting home teaching from scratch in 2013 you would say that staying in touch by text message and email with your families, maybe getting together for lunch or dinner once a month would be the way it would work, right?

[PaloAltoCougar]

Missions can be an incredible experience for people. I had a companion who was a C and D student in high school, never applied to college, and never studied in his entirely life before his mission. He finally learned to apply himself and study and learn Russian -- ended up speaking well above average missionary Russian. He learned to work hard and apply himself academically and had no skills in these areas prior to the mission. He went back to Arizona State after the mission and was a straight A student in accounting based on study skills and discipline he learned on the mission.

Here's the thing about missionaries and I guess specifically tracting that I've been thinking about lately though:

Tracting and teaching discussions are sort of modeled after two things that were commonplace decades ago but are no longer part of our culture: 1. door-to-door salesmanship and 2. parlor culture.

1. People don't want (even clean-cut and polite) strangers knocking on their door and interrupting them at home. It's creepy and annoying. It's unnatural. It's counterproductive. Missionaries should be doing service when they don't have anything else to do.

2. Sitting down and chatting with people in the front room of a home really isn't the way people interact anymore. Sure, that's probably an unfortunate thing and the older folks in the Church might deny that but it's reality -- it's just not a form of interaction with which the younger generation is familiar. Hell the only type of "parlor culture" interactions I've ever had are through the Church.

Incidentally the parlor culture argument probably applies to home teaching too, right? If we were starting home teaching from scratch in 2013 you would say that staying in touch by text message and email with your families, maybe getting together for lunch or dinner once a month would be the way it would work, right?

Completely agree on the tracting thing--a grossly inefficient and frustrating exercise. Fortunately, the Church is slowly doing away with it. Our mission has completely eliminated tracting. I wish they'd done that in Austria by, say, 1971.

The parlor culture observation is interesting. My sense is that the the intense use of social media as opposed to interaction with live bodies has left the current generation less adept at simple conversation. Perhaps that a trend that will continue and parlor culture will go onto the trash heap of history. For now, though, I think another big benefit of missions is that they take kids away from their screens for a while and force them to interact with real people.

[CardiacCoug]

Completely agree on the tracting thing--a grossly inefficient and frustrating exercise. Fortunately, the Church is slowly doing away with it. Our mission has completely eliminated tracting. I wish they'd done that in Austria by, say, 1971.

The parlor culture observation is interesting. My sense is that the the intense use of social media as opposed to interaction with live bodies has left the current generation less adept at simple conversation. Perhaps that a trend that will continue and parlor culture will go onto the trash heap of history. For now, though, I think another big benefit of missions is that they take kids away from their screens for a while and force them to interact with real people.

I'm not sure how it works in Russia now but we didn't tract on my mission either. In the early 90s it just was so clearly neither safe nor effective so it just wasn't done. It was much easier to talk to people on the street where they didn't feel threatened and it was really easy to schedule appointments. I would guess Borg's daughter won't be tracting but it's been going on 20 years since I was on the mission so obviously I don't know how it works.

Sure I agree that getting away from screens is a good thing.

[tooblue]

Missions can be an incredible experience for people. I had a companion who was a C and D student in high school, never applied to college, and never studied in his entirely life before his mission. He finally learned to apply himself and study and learn Russian -- ended up speaking well above average missionary Russian. He learned to work hard and apply himself academically and had no skills in these areas prior to the mission. He went back to Arizona State after the mission and was a straight A student in accounting based on study skills and discipline he learned on the mission.

Here's the thing about missionaries and I guess specifically tracting that I've been thinking about lately though:

Tracting and teaching discussions are sort of modeled after two things that were commonplace decades ago but are no longer part of our culture: 1. door-to-door salesmanship and 2. parlor culture.

1. People don't want (even clean-cut and polite) strangers knocking on their door and interrupting them at home. It's creepy and annoying. It's unnatural. It's counterproductive. Missionaries should be doing service when they don't have anything else to do.

2. Sitting down and chatting with people in the front room of a home really isn't the way people interact anymore. Sure, that's probably an unfortunate thing and the older folks in the Church might deny that but it's reality -- it's just not a form of interaction with which the younger generation is familiar. Hell the only type of "parlor culture" interactions I've ever had are through the Church.

Incidentally the parlor culture argument probably applies to home teaching too, right? If we were starting home teaching from scratch in 2013 you would say that staying in touch by text message and email with your families, maybe getting together for lunch or dinner once a month would be the way it would work, right?

May I politely disagree with your "parlor culture" assertions. You are too quick to buy into the modern media driven notion that people don't get together any more. You've watched one too many Toyota commercials etc. It's hyperbole, for entertainments sake. Or, propaganda designed to make us fearful:

[YOUTUBE]TUGmcb3mhLM[/YOUTUBE]

Social media (emailing, texting) is a form of and a facilitator of "parlouring." It doesn't isolate people as much as is feared. It represents an evolution and a broadening of the innate and instinctive desire of humans to huddle together. To talk, share stories and perpetuate universal human narratives. For example, one could consider the Arab Spring and the Occupy Movement extreme forms of "parlouring." These movements of masses of people gathering together to discuss politics, society and culture would not have been possible without social media! The parlour culture is alive and well in my life and not exclusively at church. Granted, I am an artist but, it's there if you want to find it. Or, if you are willing to let it find you. Hades, you are here now. And what is this place if it is not a parlour?

While I agree with your thoughts on tracting it's not because it's ineffective in the here and now, due to modern technology. Twenty years ago, before the advent of the World Wide Web, on my mission I refused to knock on doors because it was an ineffective way of trying to meet people and talk about the gospel back then. The more things change, the more things remain the same.

[CardiacCoug]

Social media (emailing, texting) is a form of and a facilitator of "parlouring." It doesn't isolate people as much as is feared. It represents an evolution and a broadening of the innate and instinctive desire of humans to huddle together. To talk, share stories and perpetuate universal human narratives. For example, one could consider the Arab Spring and the Occupy Movement extreme forms of "parlouring." These movements of masses of people gathering together to discuss politics, society and culture would not have been possible without social media! The parlour culture is alive and well in my life and not exclusively at church. Granted, I am an artist but, it's there if you want to find it. Or, if you are willing to let it find you. Hades, you are here now. And what is this place if it is not a parlour?

While I agree with your thoughts on tracting it's but not because it's ineffective in the here and now, due to modern technology. Twenty years ago, before the advent of the World Wide Web, on my mission I refused to knock on doors because it was an ineffective way of trying to meet people and talk about the gospel back then. The more things change, the more things remain the same.

Agreed, if we were living in the 1920s these CUF discussions would be happening in person in Lebowski's front room. Now people have these discussions online through video games, social media, sites like this, etc.

For better or for worse (OK honestly probably for worse) the "sit down and chat in the front room" mode of discourse is going the way of the dinosaur.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Agreed, if we were living in the 1920s these CUF discussions would be happening in person in Lebowski's front room. Now people have these discussions online through video games, social media, sites like this, etc.

For better or for worse (OK honestly probably for worse) the "sit down and chat in the front room" mode of discourse is going the way of the dinosaur.

[tooblue]

Agreed, if we were living in the 1920s these CUF discussions would be happening in person in Lebowski's front room. Now people have these discussions online through video games, social media, sites like this, etc.

For better or for worse (OK honestly probably for worse) the "sit down and chat in the front room" mode of discourse is going the way of the dinosaur.

Oh, I don't know about worse. In a very real sense I am in your parlour right now and you are in mine. We are enjoying (or, getting annoyed by) each others company ... or, at least the company of our online personas.

By the way I am currently working on a painting, taking a break, waiting for an area to dry to read this forum and eat a bowl of Heavenly Hash ice cream. Those are likely things I could not be doing were we at Lebowski's house, in his parlour. There are advantages. Didn't dinosaurs become birds?