Sex before marriage equals happiness

[San Juan Sun]

I'm guess I'm glad I don't know, and I admit to being non curious about such things. However, I do think it's possible to debase good things by throwing in not so good things. Where do you draw the line?

In a normal, loving relationship? Directly outside the couple involved, and I would die before I crossed it.

[SoCalCoug]

I've known a couple of women who didn't like sex and both of them had had bad experiences when they were young. One had been raped as a teenager and the other had been molested as a child. I have a hard time believing LDS women are frigid because of the LDS culture. From what I've observed, LDS women are every bit as enthusiastic about sex as non-LDS women. If a woman is sexually dysfunctional, I'm more inclined to believe it has more to do with past experiences than it does with LDS teachings.

I do not doubt your experiences and I am sure for the most part your correct about LDS women. But the issue is not about majority here. If the majority were dysfunctional, that it would not be considered a dysfunction it would be considered normal.

The issue is to what extent LDS teachings, customs, and insinuations have a negative effect on sexuality and sexual practices of some LDS members. Just like you have anecdotal experiences suggesting to you that frigidity is due to outside factors, there are others whose anecdotal experiences strongly suggest that LDS teachings and teachings by parents and church leaders, have at least some bearing on this.

Your personal experiences are likely not broad enough to draw conclusions for the larger population; neither are mine; that is why we have this discussion, to see what experiences a broader spectrum of LDS people have had. We also have some in this group who have specialized training and experience in this area.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. And it appears to be based on your experience. I and others have other opinions that are different from yours, which are based on our experiences, and for some training. I am glad that, given your stated leanings, you are open-minded enough to consider some of the other opinions about this issue that are being expressed. That, I think is the value of the sort of forum.

[snowcat]

The message is unclear and ambiguous. Depending upon the skill of the bishop and the young women leaders, we can color what our youth, especially girls feel about one of life's blessings.

Why in the world would anyone leave this messaging to a bishop and ym leaders. I hope parents are past this at this point.

[Northwestcoug]

I know of an interesting case somewhat related to this topic.

This couple had a lot of sex before marriage. According to him, there was the usual cycle of horniness with guilt afterwards. They were kind of caught, and the bishop got involved. Even after the disciplinary process, it was extremely difficult for them to not screw around before their temple wedding. Suffice it to say, they had absolutely no problems with sexual desire.

After they got married, the husband said that the wife's interest in sex quickly plummeted, except for when she wanted a child. She blames birth control medication, but he sees that as an excuse. Sex has become very perfunctory, to the point of him feeling it's almost not worth it to even initiate it. It has become a huge deal to him, and he has sought out counselling outside of the church. She doesn't think it a problem. He wonders what happened to the randy girl he knew before they got married.

On top of that, she has become quite rigid when dealing with her teenage daughters. She gets mad at them when she finds out they are initiating normal contact with boys. The church has set the standard for her, and she will not deviate from it. The husband can't believe it. He can't understand why she can't see how easy it is for teenagers to not follow the church's standard, as she herself was a prime example. She refuses to talk to them about birth control, or what to do if they get in trouble. It has been left up to him to let his daughters know there's a healthy way to deal with sex outside of the church.

So I guess in this instance, sex before marriage really didn't help out . But she is finding it quite easy to use an unbending church standard to deal with her children, hypocritically I might add.

[MarkGrace]

Oral is Moral. Come on people, I thought most of you attended BYU?!

[MarkGrace]

I know of an interesting case somewhat related to this topic.

This couple had a lot of sex before marriage. According to him, there was the usual cycle of horniness with guilt afterwards. They were kind of caught, and the bishop got involved. Even after the disciplinary process, it was extremely difficult for them to not screw around before their temple wedding. Suffice it to say, they had absolutely no problems with sexual desire.

After they got married, the husband said that the wife's interest in sex quickly plummeted, except for when she wanted a child. She blames birth control medication, but he sees that as an excuse. Sex has become very perfunctory, to the point of him feeling it's almost not worth it to even initiate it. It has become a huge deal to him, and he has sought out counselling outside of the church. She doesn't think it a problem. He wonders what happened to the randy girl he knew before they got married.

I'm not sure this is terribly interesting. I think it's the cycle a lot of relationships go through -- just at what point it happens varies depending on when they start having sex.

[Topper]

Why in the world would anyone leave this messaging to a bishop and ym leaders. I hope parents are past this at this point.

I don't know why the Church chooses to make chastity as one of its litmus tests for mmembership. If I were in charges would eliminate this discussion in total from church.

The church is unqualified to give advice here and should refrain. Parents, family and experts should advise children, not lay priests.

[DU Ute]

I don't know why the Church chooses to make chastity as one of its litmus tests for mmembership. If I were in charges would eliminate this discussion in total from church.

The church is unqualified to give advice here and should refrain. Parents, family and experts should advise children, not lay priests.

Lay priests is exactly what the church is trying to prevent.

[Donuthole]

Oral is Moral. Come on people, I thought most of you attended BYU?!

Also: "Docking's not knocking" and "Soaking's not poking"

[MarkGrace]

Lay priests is exactly what the church is trying to prevent.

[Levin]

I don't know why the Church chooses to make chastity as one of its litmus tests for mmembership. If I were in charges would eliminate this discussion in total from church.

The church is unqualified to give advice here and should refrain. Parents, family and experts should advise children, not lay priests.

This is a non-sequitor.

A faith is fully within its rights to teach a law of chastity based on its respect for procreation, life, and the unity of body and soul. When some have emotional complications with sex within the law as prescribed, then I agree, the Church may not be the best vehicle for dispensing counseling. But that does not mean a faith cannot provide its views on the proper use of the procreative power.

[MarkGrace]

Also: "Docking's not knocking" and "Soaking's not Poking"

I think it says this on all degrees earned at BYU.

[Topper]

I've known a couple of women who didn't like sex and both of them had had bad experiences when they were young. One had been raped as a teenager and the other had been molested as a child. I have a hard time believing LDS women are frigid because of the LDS culture. From what I've observed, LDS women are every bit as enthusiastic about sex as non-LDS women. If a woman is sexually dysfunctional, I'm more inclined to believe it has more to do with past experiences than it does with LDS teachings.

Why should bishops ever discuss chastity or sex? If we eliminated this discussion there would be no awkward interviews or bad advice.

[MarkGrace]

btw, how has this thread made it to page 5 without a parody on SU's most famous post? Maybe there was one and I just missed it.

[Northwestcoug]

If oral is sex is edifying, she's not doing it right.

I'm guess I'm glad I don't know, and I admit to being non curious about such things. However, I do think it's possible to debase good things by throwing in not so good things. Where do you draw the line? Just because two good LDS people want a third to join them, doesn't "make it OK in the bedroom."

I like you too, and am often amazed at the things you contribute, but I'm not going to follow the bread crumbs to jungle land. :humorattempt:nothingpersonal:

And this is at the heart of the problem. If you believe sex is sacred, then it is very easy to attempt to draw a line between right and wrong. And by extension, between god-approved and condemned. But the problem is that line is never clearly delineated. You will find any number of quotes from leaders that anyone can use to reaffirm their sense of sexual right and wrong.
French-kissing? Oral sex? Anal sex? And for these people, there will inevitably be a time when at least one partner will feel guilty for a night of 'deviance'.

However, if you believe that you and your partner should have the last word on sexual appropriateness, unfettered by someone else's opinion, then a lot of things can go on. Some things will not be fun, others will. But there will be no guilt afterwards.

Now tell me, who will have the healthier sexual relationship?

In conclusion, let me give a shout-out to dirty sex. What a great thing it is...