Former Stake Prez Exmo Second Annointing claim

[creekster]

So is there an agreement here on what the doctrine actually is? if someone receives it, are they good no matter what they do?

No, there isn't.

[myboynoah]

OK, I went back and reviewed the Buerger book. I was wrong about there being a "chapter on second anointings". They are discussed throughout the entire book. Second anointings were so common, such a primary part of the temple ordinances (albeit only administered to a subset of the members), that it was widely known, widely discussed, and widely documented. Makes it all the more remarkable that they are so rare now, IMO.

As others have documented here, the numbers tapered off dramatically at one point and Elder Richards went on a campaign to increase frequency. Not clear what the current rate is as the records are not made public anymore.

Buerger's evidence for current practice is outlined on pages 164-165. He recounts a few cases of people who claimed to have known several people who have received it (kind of weak), but his best evidence is discussions with temple presidents. He documents three personal interviews with acting temple presidents and provides the names, temples (Provo, Oakland, and Idaho Falls), and dates of the conversations. Each indicated that the ordinance is still performed and described the procedure in some detail. He also mentions that it is currently referenced using the term "special blessing". Seems like reasonably solid evidence to me.

Some secret if three separate temple presidents talk about it so easily.

[Pheidippides]

So is there an agreement here on what the doctrine actually is? if someone receives it, are they good no matter what they do?

Based on what I've read, JS certainly thought/taught so - save shedding of innocent blood. Key word innocent, which in some cases was argued to exclude persons you and I might not exclude.

But, no, I wouldn't say there's an agreement.

[Shaka]

Grain of salt time.

My grandmother before she died claimed a relative of mine had received the ordinance. No she wasn't suffering from an age related mental disorder. Wouldn't surprise me if this occurred due to this particular relative's church and societal status.

I haven't asked said relative if this the ordinance occurred and they probably wouldn't tell me if it had. As far as Grandma goes she was very well respected and wasn't the type to lie about this sort of thing. Interesting factoid about this Grandma was she loved the church and had a very strong testimony but she thought Joseph Smith was a cad.

[pellegrino]

OK, I went back and reviewed the Buerger book. I was wrong about there being a "chapter on second anointings". They are discussed throughout the entire book. Second anointings were so common, such a primary part of the temple ordinances (albeit only administered to a subset of the members), that it was widely known, widely discussed, and widely documented. Makes it all the more remarkable that they are so rare now, IMO.

As others have documented here, the numbers tapered off dramatically at one point and Elder Richards went on a campaign to increase frequency. Not clear what the current rate is as the records are not made public anymore.

Buerger's evidence for current practice is outlined on pages 164-165. He recounts a few cases of people who claimed to have known several people who have received it (kind of weak), but his best evidence is discussions with temple presidents. He documents three personal interviews with acting temple presidents and provides the names, temples (Provo, Oakland, and Idaho Falls), and dates of the conversations. Each indicated that the ordinance is still performed and described the procedure in some detail. He also mentions that it is currently referenced using the term "special blessing". Seems like reasonably solid evidence to me.

In the interview Phillips refers to it with that term.

[Pelado]

Based on what I've read, JS certainly thought/taught so - save shedding of innocent blood. Key word innocent, which in some cases was argued to exclude persons you and I might not exclude.

But, no, I wouldn't say there's an agreement.

Are you referencing any particular former governors from MO?

[Pheidippides]

Are you referencing any particular former governors from MO?

He'd be one of them, yup.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Fine. Can we talk about what was promised to others in history?

[creekster]

Fine. Can we talk about what was promised to others in history?

Do you feel constrained for some reason?

[pelagius]

Do you feel constrained for some reason?

I deleted a post ... So yes

[Jeff Lebowski]

You notice I refer and describe this evidence as well in my some of my posts. I also suggest this is evidence in favor of the continued practiced (but somewhat limited in at least the sense I outline below). I think it is also important (as I noted before) that the temple presidents didn't necessarily all agree that the second anointing still was linked with having your calling and election made sure. In fact, two temple presidents were citing the notion that it was a "special blessing" and not an ordinance that necessarily guarenteed salvation. So part of my point was that, yes, it is likely still performed but the theology is surrounding it is not clear. So even if the second anointing is still practiced (and I think it is), it is not necessarily same as the 19th century version. If you look back at my posts you'll note I am really hammering on not so much existence of a second anointing but the limited evidence of a second anointing that has the same implications as the 19th century version (or at least that was what I was trying to primarily argue because the original interview is arguing for the existence of something nearly identically in practice and theology and I think there is a huge difference between an ordinance that yields a calling and election made sure and one that doesn't ... apologies if that wasn't clear).

I accept your apology.

[All-American]

Wait, are you all saying that NONE of you have received it? Huh. Well, something for you guys to look forward to, I guess.

[pelagius]

I accept your apology.

If you're going to accept an apology, the very least you could do is not torment me with an emoticon.

[Uncle Ted]

Wait, are you all saying that NONE of you have received it? Huh. Well, something for you guys to look forward to, I guess.

We can't tell you.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If you're going to accept an apology the very least you could do is not torment me with an emoticon.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.