Former Stake Prez Exmo Second Annointing claim

[jay santos]

Tom Phillips, a former Stake Prez and church big wig in England, is now a bitter exmo and claims to have done the Second Annointing ordinance with an apostle in the London temple.

John Dehlin interviewed the guy for MormonStories, but decided not to put it on his website for some reason. That's a discussion point right there. Why did JD decide not to publish it? Why did he do the interview in the first place if he's scared of the controversy of the content?

So apparently Tom Phillips has rights to the interview and put the mp3 online.

It's long (4 hours--just listening while i work), but a pretty interesting story.

He claims he and his wife met with Elder Ballard who performed the Second Endowment and made their Calling and Election sure.

Since then, he went apostate. Usual story: Book of Abraham, Lamanite DNA, evolution, etc.

He's had some barbs with the brethren, including an email war with Elder Holland which he has published on the internet.

If anyone has listened to the podcast I'm interested to hear if you believe him or not, or if you believe this ordinance is done currently. I'll try to find the link and post it.

Reasons to believe him:
He's intelligent, articulate, and generally very believable.
It seems his wife who he's divorced with and is still an active believer would come out against him if it was a lie.

Reasons not to believe him:
The topic is pretty unbelievable.
He's very bitter about the church and personally with Elder Holland

My verdict: he's lying.

[Uncle Ted]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/tempstash/T...s-Unedited.mp3

http://www.sendspace.com/file/wc7eg5

Edit: Another link...

http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoa...s-Unedited.mp3

[Uncle Ted]

Tom Phillips, a former Stake Prez and church big wig in England, is now a bitter exmo and claims to have done the Second Annointing ordinance with an apostle in the London temple.

John Dehlin interviewed the guy for MormonStories, but decided not to put it on his website for some reason. That's a discussion point right there. Why did JD decide not to publish it? Why did he do the interview in the first place if he's scared of the controversy of the content?

So apparently Tom Phillips has rights to the interview and put the mp3 online.

It's long (4 hours--just listening while i work), but a pretty interesting story.

He claims he and his wife met with Elder Ballard who performed the Second Endowment and made their Calling and Election sure.

Since then, he went apostate. Usual story: Book of Abraham, Lamanite DNA, evolution, etc.

He's had some barbs with the brethren, including an email war with Elder Holland which he has published on the internet.

If anyone has listened to the podcast I'm interested to hear if you believe him or not, or if you believe this ordinance is done currently. I'll try to find the link and post it.

Reasons to believe him:
He's intelligent, articulate, and generally very believable.
It seems his wife who he's divorced with and is still an active believer would come out against him if it was a lie.

Reasons not to believe him:
The topic is pretty unbelievable.
He's very bitter about the church and personally with Elder Holland

My verdict: he's lying.

I haven't listened to the podcast but what do you think about the topic that is unbelievable?

[Moliere]

Tom Phillips, a former Stake Prez and church big wig in England, is now a bitter exmo and claims to have done the Second Annointing ordinance with an apostle in the London temple.

John Dehlin interviewed the guy for MormonStories, but decided not to put it on his website for some reason. That's a discussion point right there. Why did JD decide not to publish it? Why did he do the interview in the first place if he's scared of the controversy of the content?

...

My verdict: he's lying.

This is one of two reasonable answers as to why JD didn't put it up on his website.

[jay santos]

I haven't listened to the podcast but what do you think about the topic that is unbelievable?

We haven't heard anything on this for over 100 years. It just seems weird. If it was offered to a stake prez in England, it seems it would have been offered to thousands over the past 50 years or so, and you'd have someone tell his kids or something and it would be leaked.

[Goatnapper'96]

Tom Phillips, a former Stake Prez and church big wig in England, is now a bitter exmo and claims to have done the Second Annointing ordinance with an apostle in the London temple.

John Dehlin interviewed the guy for MormonStories, but decided not to put it on his website for some reason. That's a discussion point right there. Why did JD decide not to publish it? Why did he do the interview in the first place if he's scared of the controversy of the content?

So apparently Tom Phillips has rights to the interview and put the mp3 online.

It's long (4 hours--just listening while i work), but a pretty interesting story.

He claims he and his wife met with Elder Ballard who performed the Second Endowment and made their Calling and Election sure.

Since then, he went apostate. Usual story: Book of Abraham, Lamanite DNA, evolution, etc.

He's had some barbs with the brethren, including an email war with Elder Holland which he has published on the internet.

If anyone has listened to the podcast I'm interested to hear if you believe him or not, or if you believe this ordinance is done currently. I'll try to find the link and post it.

Reasons to believe him:
He's intelligent, articulate, and generally very believable.
It seems his wife who he's divorced with and is still an active believer would come out against him if it was a lie.

Reasons not to believe him:
The topic is pretty unbelievable.
He's very bitter about the church and personally with Elder Holland

My verdict: he's lying.

I was a missionary in the Stourbridge Ward of the England Birmingham (pronounced Bueeer-ming-um) Stake from October '92 - January '93. I even went to one stake conference in which he presided. Don't remember a damn thing about him. A year later I served in the Harborne Ward in the same stake and recall a talk that Clive Norton delivered as a young stake president. I think Norton served in the same mission as Archaea, Pamp-ASS Coug (formerly BYUMBA and executive VP of my mormons for Fake Ta-Tas alliance) and Bernard. I don't know if Clive has apostatized.

I don't think he is lying but I feel sorry for his accent. That Brumie accent was gawd-awful. It was the first English accent I became accustomed to as Stourbridge was my greenie area, but after returning after a year away in Coventry and Derby I could not understand a damn word those people would say.

[Uncle Ted]

This is one of two reasonable answers as to why JD didn't put it up on his website.

So JD said this?

[byu71]

I agree with you Jay, don't believe it. On the other hand I wouldn't be shocked if it were true. The cloud of "GA's can do no wrong and the secrecy that exists" one can not say it is a laughable and outrageous claim.

[Moliere]

I agree with you Jay, don't believe it. On the other hand I wouldn't be shocked if it were true. The cloud of "GA's can do no wrong and the secrecy that exists" one can not say it is a laughable and outrageous claim.

I'll listent to the podcast before opining on whether or not he's lying.

As for the second annointing, I don't doubt it's still performed: http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm/ref/...logue/id/18194

[pelagius]

We haven't heard anything on this for over 100 years.

Over 100 years isn't right. There are published records of the number of second anointings for the Salt Lake and Manti temples until 1941. Still quite a while ago but not over 100 years. Second anointings slow down to virtually 0-2 performed yearly in the 1930s.

[DrumNFeather]

So JD said this?

Maybe he just owed someone at HQ a solid?

[Indy Coug]

My guess as to why JD didn't use it is because JD has more than your average level of interactions with halfmos and exmos and has a developed good bullshit barometer.

[RC Vikings]

I've never even heard of the second annointing before so I went to the mountain (wiki) to see what it was. Can you imagine all the other stuff we would have if Joseph Smith would have lived ten more years? I prefer keeping everything simple so it wouldn't have been good for me.

[TripletDaddy]

I've never even heard of the second annointing before so I went to the mountain (wiki) to see what it was. Can you imagine all the other stuff we would have if Joseph Smith would have lived ten more years? I prefer keeping everything simple so it wouldn't have been good for me.

Serious?

I thought that was one of the more popular topics of conjecture on the mish. "Calling and Election Made Sure."

If someone has their C&EMS and then they go apostate, do they become a Son of Perdition?

[Uncle Ted]

Over 100 years isn't right. There are published records of the number of second anointings for the Salt Lake and Manti temples until 1941. Still quite a while ago but not over 100 years. Second anointings slow down to virtually 0-2 performed yearly in the 1930s.

This seems to jive with the information I have...

Manti Temple Totals to May 28, 1938:

Higher Blessings...................................3,550.

Manti Temple Golden Jubilee--1888-1938"
Lundwall manuscripts Roll # 1, p. 17 of the brochure handed out to the attenders of the celebration held on May 4, 1938.

April 1938

Statistical Report:   [p. 54]

Totals all Temples to Dec. 31, 1936

Second Annointings
Living.............14,777
Dead................6,208

and for 1937 (of the seven operating temples, viz., Salt Lake, Logan, Manti, St. George, Hawaiia (sic), Alberta, Arizona) only the Salt Lake Temple had any second anointings:


Living.................2
Dead...................1


Genealogical and Historical Magazine of the Arizona Temple District, Vol. 14, No. 2, pp. 10, 11 (April 1938).
                                                                                                                     
April 1939

Salt Lake Temple (only Temple giving Second Anointings):

Living.................2

Dead...................0

Genealogical and Historical Magazine of the Arizona Temple District, Vol. 15, No. 2, pp. 10, 11 (April 1939).

The frequency seemed to slow way down.