Former Stake Prez Exmo Second Annointing claim

[TripletDaddy]

I had honestly never of second annointings until this thread. I don't get all the secrecy.

Don't stress about it. You aren't eligible anymore, anyway.

[Sullyute]

I wish I could find my first edition Mormon Doctrine (Signed by the author! In his living room!) for some answers here, but if one has one's C&EMS, does apostasy even matter? I would think one could party like it was 2099. If not, then "sure" doesn't mean what I thought it meant.

This was my understanding. That you more or less have a perfect knowledge and your salvation is secure, however if you do sin you will have to pay for the sin yourself because of that perfect knowledge.

[Indy Coug]

Maybe there is something in the text of the C&ES ordinance that mentions consequences of rejecting the truth?

[YOhio]

Maybe there is something in the text of the C&ES ordinance that mentions consequences of rejecting the truth?

Yep. Enjoy this action for an eternity, Mr. Former Stake Prez.

[UtahDan]

My guess as to why JD didn't use it is because JD has more than your average level of interactions with halfmos and exmos and has a developed good bullshit barometer.

I'm not going to let this one pass either. Given all of the very far fetched factual assertions religious people accept, should being around them also give you a very well developed bullshit meter?

[Non Sequitur]

Don't stress about it. You aren't eligible anymore, anyway.

There's still hope for me. I'm on the Alma the Younger track...persecute and party and wait for an angel to knock some sense into me. It could happen any day now.

[Indy Coug]

I'm not going to let this one pass either. Given all of the very far fetched factual assertions religious people accept, should being around them also give you a very well developed bullshit meter?

That's what I get for actually trying to defend Dehlin.

I guess I should have gone for the more obvious response that he's just trying to preserve his revenue stream by giving the appearance of objectivity.

[UtahDan]

That's what I get for actually trying to defend Dehlin. :rolleye:

One would think that a believing Mormon would understand why challenging someone's integrity based on their religious beliefs would chap their ass.

[MarkGrace]

I've never even heard of the second annointing before so I went to the mountain (wiki) to see what it was. Can you imagine all the other stuff we would have if Joseph Smith would have lived ten more years? I prefer keeping everything simple so it wouldn't have been good for me.

Neither had. I've obviously heard a ton about the calling and election, but never in the context of an official ceremony/annointing.

[NorthwestUteFan]

This was my understanding. That you more or less have a perfect knowledge and your salvation is secure, however if you do sin you will have to pay for the sin yourself because of that perfect knowledge.

I remember learning about this in seminary in 9th grade. We read about C&EMS/Second Annointing it from an old copy of MD, then discussed it in the context of the plan of salvation. The teacher speculated that if somebody has that and then sins, he will be on his own to pay for his crime. He also made it seem as though we could aspire to this ordinance by being very righteous, serving faithfully in high priesthood callings for a number of years, etc.

Seminary was chock full of discussions like that when the teacher got bored and went tangential.

[Scorcho]

I searched C&ES on LDS.org and found this ...

“To have one’s calling and election made sure is to be sealed up unto eternal life; it is to have the unconditional guarantee of exaltation in the highest heaven of the celestial world; it is to receive the assurance of godhood; it is, in effect, to have the day of judgment advanced, so that an inheritance of all the glory and honor of the Father’s kingdom is assured prior to the day when the faithful actually enter into the divine presence to sit with Christ in his throne, even as he is ‘set down’ with his ‘Father in his throne.’ (Rev. 3:21.) (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Bookcraft, 1973, 3:330–31.)

As Elder McConkie goes on to indicate, the “unconditional guarantee” means that a person’s actions have been fully approved, that “there are no more conditions to be met by the obedient person.” (P. 335.) When one has been thus sealed up unto eternal life, he is “sealed up against all manner of sin except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and the shedding of innocent blood.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:46.)

for those of us that are a little fuzzy about this reference it sounds like C&ES is simply the religous equivalent of Disneyland's Fast Pass

[NorthwestUteFan]

I guess I should have gone for the more obvious response that he's just trying to preserve his revenue stream by giving the appearance of objectivity.

This is partly true. First, I think Dehlin's leaders (SP and Bish) have him on a very short leash, and second, Dehlin knows that his ability to help people (or sell podcasts or 'make a difference in the church' however you want to couch it) will be severely limited if he is no longer a member (whether resigned or excommunicated).

[NorthwestUteFan]

I searched C&ES on LDS.org and found this ...



for those of us that are a little fuzzy about this reference it sounds like C&ES is simply the religous equivalent of Disneyland's Fast Pass

As Tom Phillips mentions in the podcast, having the C&EMS was the equivalent of moving one's time of judgement at the Judgement Bar of God forward to this life, rather than after death.

[Scorcho]

As Tom Phillips mentions in the podcast, having the C&EMS was the equivalent of moving one's time of judgement at the Judgement Bar of God forward to this life, rather than after death.

and just like at Disney it sound like the C@ES FAST PASS is currently out of order.

[MarkGrace]

As Tom Phillips mentions in the podcast, having the C&EMS was the equivalent of moving one's time of judgement at the Judgement Bar of God forward to this life, rather than after death.

Which doesn't make any sense at all.