One of the September Six is Rebaptized

[TripletDaddy]

Concern for the sentiments of family?

I think by that point you have already destroyed the feelings and sentiments of family.

It is fair to wonder whether these apostates really still believe or retain some bit of doubt as to whether they are doing the right thing by leaving.

[lambdacoug]

I think by that point you have already destroyed the feelings and sentiments of family.

It is fair to wonder whether these apostates really still believe or retain some bit of doubt as to whether they are doing the right thing by leaving.

There is a difference between leaving but staying on the records and leaving and removing yourself that I feel is significant. I've officially resigned, but I have not said so to my family, and I won't for the foreseeable future. Though they probably already know since my dad is the former SP and best friends with the current SP (who handled my resignation), and I have little trust that my confidentiality has been respected.

[RobinFinderson]

I don't care about that. I just don't care enough to resign.

Apathy is perhaps the ugliest form of moral cowardice. I hope you take this as a compliment, but I simply can't believe that "I just don't care enough to resign" is all you have. I respect you too much to believe that the trouble of signing a form letter and dropping it into the mail is all that stands between you and doing right by the millions of gay American's whose lives have been impacted by the Mormon church's political activism. For example, if your parents had signed you up as a child to be a member of the KKK, would you tolerate that affiliation into adulthood? I doubt it. On some level, I have to think that you still value your formal Mormon affiliation.

[TripletDaddy]

There is a difference between leaving but staying on the records and leaving and removing yourself that I feel is significant. I've officially resigned, but I have not said so to my family, and I won't for the foreseeable future. Though they probably already know since my dad is the former SP and best friends with the current SP (who handled my resignation), and I have little trust that my confidentiality has been respected.

You are a nice person. I support you here on this message board.

[ERCougar]

I will have to double check, but I don't think any of the September 6 were truly apostates at the time and maybe never were. They were believers who were saying things the church didn't like. I guess what this shows is that they no longer think excommunication is the proper response to faithful heretics.

Toscano seems pretty far over the line to me, assuming one could find a line.

As for her being the second, I wonder if theyre counting the expert on judaism (can't ternever the name) as the first. I dont think he was technically rebaptized, right? More like the church rescinded its own action?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Apathy is perhaps the ugliest form of moral cowardice. I hope you take this as a compliment, but I simply can't believe that "I just don't care enough to resign" is all you have. I respect you too much to believe that the trouble of signing a form letter and dropping it into the mail is all that stands between you and doing right by the millions of gay American's whose lives have been impacted by the Mormon church's political activism. For example, if your parents had signed you up as a child to be a member of the KKK, would you tolerate that affiliation into adulthood? I doubt it. On some level, I have to think that you still value your formal Mormon affiliation.

Hey, can you move this pissing contest somewhere else please? You are sullying our nice thread. TIA.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Toscano seems pretty far over the line to me, assuming one could find a line.

As for her being the second, I wonder if theyre counting the expert on judaism (can't ternever the name) as the first. I dont think he was technically rebaptized, right? More like the church rescinded its own action?

Bingo.

From wikipedia:

Avraham Gileadi

Avraham Gileadi is a Hebrew scholar and literary analyst who is considered theologically conservative. He authored two books, one about Isaiah and one about the last days, which were published by LDS-owned Deseret Book. The second book was later pulled from the shelves.[5] The reasons for his excommunication on September 15 are unclear. According to Margaret Toscano, whose husband was among the September Six and who would also later be excommunicated, Gileadi's "books interpreting Mormon scripture challenged the exclusive right of leaders to define doctrine." [6] Gileadi has been re-baptized and is an active member of the church.[7][8] He has since written works on Isaiah, including The Literary Message of Isaiah (2002) and Isaiah Decoded: Ascending the Ladder to Heaven (2002).

[MarkGrace]

Hey, can you move this pissing contest somewhere else please? You are sullying our nice thread. TIA.

I did like the comparison to the KKK, though.

[SeattleUte]

Apathy is perhaps the ugliest form of moral cowardice. I hope you take this as a compliment, but I simply can't believe that "I just don't care enough to resign" is all you have. I respect you too much to believe that the trouble of signing a form letter and dropping it into the mail is all that stands between you and doing right by the millions of gay American's whose lives have been impacted by the Mormon church's political activism. For example, if your parents had signed you up as a child to be a member of the KKK, would you tolerate that affiliation into adulthood? I doubt it. On some level, I have to think that you still value your formal Mormon affiliation.

It's not the kind of apathy you presume. I think people who resign actually give the church a level of satisfaction. You are ascribing a significance to membership to which I don't ascribe.

I am consistent. I am very good at being entirely truthful to my children. What I tell them is I couldn't care less whether or not they baptise. Baptism or membership per se is meaningless. It's how they actually live that matters.

You are still traumatized by the teaching since childhood that there is a magic transformation associated with baptism or membership per se. There just isn't.

However, it's not unusual for exmos to carry their binary and circumscribed view of the world ingrained by Mormonism into apostasy. Just look at the exmo board. They think the world is all about mos and exmos. It's not. Mo is a grain of sand in the human experience.

I don't see this resignation fixation in other religions. For eample, there are many millions of people raised Catholics or Southern Baptists or whatever totally disgusted with their former faith to whom this would occur.

I would resign from the KKK for a different reason. The LDS church is not the KKK however, for all its faults.

[lambdacoug]

It's not the kind of apathy you presume. I think people who resign actually give the church a level of satisfaction. You are ascribing a significance to membership to which I don't ascribe.

I am consistent. I am very good at being entirely truthful to my children. What I tell them is I couldn't care less whether or not they baptise. Baptism or membership per se is meaningless. It's how they actually live that matters.

You are still traumatized by the teaching since childhood that there is a magic transformation associated with baptism or membership per se. There just isn't.

However, it's not unusual for exmos to carry their binary and circumscribed view of the world ingrained by Mormonism into apostasy. Just look at the exmo board. They think the world is all about mos and exmos. It's not. Mo is a grain of sand in the human experience.

I don't see this resignation fixation in other religions. For eample, there are many millions of people raised Catholics or Southern Baptists or whatever totally disgusted with their former faith to whom this would occur.

I would resign from the KKK for a different reason. The LDS church is not the KKK however, for all its faults.

I resigned because I no longer wanted to affiliated with the church. I disagree with much of what it stands for and I do not care to be counted amongst its numbers. I couldn't, with good conscience, believe what I believe and still allow myself to be counted amongst its ranks. Call this what you will, but it was a matter of personal consistency and integrity for me. I think this is the case for a lot of people that resign.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I resigned because I no longer wanted to affiliated with the church. I disagree with much of what it stands for and I do not care to be counted amongst its numbers. I couldn't, with good conscience, believe what I believe and still allow myself to be counted amongst its ranks. Call this what you will, but it was a matter of personal consistency and integrity for me. I think this is the case for a lot of people that resign.

You have mentioned that a time or two.

[SeattleUte]

I resigned because I no longer wanted to affiliated with the church. I disagree with much of what it stands for and I do not care to be counted amongst its numbers. I couldn't, with good conscience, believe what I believe and still allow myself to be counted amongst its ranks. Call this what you will, but it was a matter of personal consistency and integrity for me. I think this is the case for a lot of people that resign.

I'm not criticizing you. Your de jure status in the LDS church is meaningless to me.

[ERCougar]

Bingo.

From wikipedia:

Yeah, that's the guy. It doesn't say anything about being rebaptized, which seems strange for a church that is usually fussy about technicalities like that.

If it happened quickly, I see that as quite different from being rebaptized. Either way, I admire their willingness to be patient with an imperfect church. I don't think I could have done it.

[creekster]

It doesn't say anything about being rebaptized,

Avraham Gileadi is a Hebrew scholar and literary analyst who is considered theologically conservative. He authored two books, one about Isaiah and one about the last days, which were published by LDS-owned Deseret Book. The second book was later pulled from the shelves.[5] The reasons for his excommunication on September 15 are unclear. According to Margaret Toscano, whose husband was among the September Six and who would also later be excommunicated, Gileadi's "books interpreting Mormon scripture challenged the exclusive right of leaders to define doctrine." [6] Gileadi has been re-baptized and is an active member of the church.[7][8] He has since written works on Isaiah, including The Literary Message of Isaiah (2002) and Isaiah Decoded: Ascending the Ladder to Heaven (2002).

????

[PaloAltoCougar]

????

???, indeed. The third paragraph of the linked article in JL's opening post says this.