Randy Bott and the Priesthood Ban

[jay santos]

Right, right, because the main thing is what will happen if the members start to think that it's possible that the prophets could be so wrong on so important an issue for so long.

I agree with DDD on that. I do think that's the bigger issue here. I take it higher than that. I think it's even bigger issue that it's in the Mormon canon in the book of Abraham and Moses.

[TripletDaddy]

I agree with DDD on that. I do think that's the bigger issue here. I take it higher than that. I think it's even bigger issue that it's in the Mormon canon in the book of Abraham and Moses.

Jay santos throws down the appetizers and has begun enjoying his main course.

Meanwhile, All-American is still trying to figure out whether he wants to snack on nachos or a bloomin' onion.

[All-American]

I agree with DDD on that. I do think that's the bigger issue here. I take it higher than that. I think it's even bigger issue that it's in the Mormon canon in the book of Abraham and Moses.

I didn't say I disagreed. I just think it's odd that he seems to believe that he's the only one to whom the thought has occurred.

[jay santos]

Jay santos throws down the appetizers and has begun enjoying his main course.

Meanwhile, All-American is still trying to figure out whether he wants to snack on nachos or a bloomin' onion.

I was enjoying the main course from the beginning on this topic, but it's always good to mix in snacks.

[jay santos]

I didn't say I disagreed. I just think it's odd that he seems to believe that he's the only one to whom the thought has occurred.

Well, that's just Triplet Daddy. I didn't know we were stopping the discussion to point out the obvious.

[Jeff Lebowski]

AA, can you pass the spinach dip?

And stop bogarting the stuffed mushrooms.

[All-American]

AA, can you pass the spinach dip?

And stop bogarting the stuffed mushrooms.

My college buddies and I used to go hit up appleby's when they did their half off appetizers after 9 deal and get the sampler platter. Good stuff, that.

[TripletDaddy]

I didn't say I disagreed. I just think it's odd that he seems to believe that he's the only one to whom the thought has occurred.

On the contrary, I am pretty sure it has occurred to you and many others. Now push it as far back in Option 2 as you can and let's get to the bottom of the priesthood ban. I want to know whether Church leaders in the late 1800s held racists views. It is a very intriguing topic and has lots of modern applicability. Can you please link your long post about the matter?

[SeattleUte]

I've been doing some googling and I don't see anything from spokespeople who matter that Uncle Tom is racist. This does not surprise me as I've never regarded the term as racist. Really the only people I've seen who regard the term as racist are anonymous posters on discussion boards, as here.

I look to black leaders and intellectuals for guidance about correct usage in reference to race, and I'm all ears. Logically, it seems that Uncle Tom remains a useful or important concept, as this Deseret News article seems to illustrate. Blacks and liberals have repeatedly called Clarence Thomas and Thomas Sowell Uncle Toms. It seems that like racist Uncle Tom is a term that is used irresponsibly or too often, but there is nothing inherently racist about the concept it represents.

If you abhor racism you should abhor thoughtless accusations of racism. You should especially abhor false accusations of racism in response to genuine critiques of racism. This is not the first time this has happened here.

[SeattleUte]

I'm of the opinion that the ban was racist and that it was not instituted by God. Given how much we don't know about when and why it was instituted, however (noting, for example, that the 1852 statement doesn't say why alleged descendants of Cain could not hold the priesthood), I don't find "we don't know" to be nearly as objectionable as you do.

You don't get it. The reason we don't know is offensive is it's a dodge. It evades any reckoning and apology, which should be done, at least according to the cuf consensus. That is the purpose of he we don't know technicality.

Remember how in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof Big Daddy kept saying he hated the mendacity particularly in reference to his church going oddest son and daughter in law? That's LDS leaders for you. Mendacious.

[Indy Coug]

If you abhor racism you should abhor thoughtless accusations of racism. You should especially abhor false accusations of racism in response to genuine critiques of racism. This is not the first time this has happened here.

Coming from someone that puts the "law" in Godwin's Law, I find this quote particularly enjoyable.

[SeattleUte]

Coming from someone that puts the "law" in Godwin's Law, I find this quote particularly enjoyable.

I've never enjoyed your posts.

[Indy Coug]

I've never enjoyed your posts.

Likewise. But I do occasionally enjoy portions of your posts.

[All-American]

You don't get it. The reason we don't know is offensive is it's a dodge. It evades any reckoning and apology, which should be done, at least according to the cuf consensus. That is the purpose of he we don't know technicality.

Remember how in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof Big Daddy kept saying he hated the mendacity particularly in reference to his church going oddest son and daughter in law? That's LDS leaders for you. Mendacious.

It's an easy call if you subscribe to option 3.

[RobinFinderson]

I've been doing some googling and I don't see anything from spokespeople who matter that Uncle Tom is racist. This does not surprise me as I've never regarded the term as racist. Really the only people I've seen who regard the term as racist are anonymous posters on discussion boards, as here.

I look to black leaders and intellectuals for guidance about correct usage in reference to race, and I'm all ears. Logically, it seems that Uncle Tom remains a useful or important concept, as this Deseret News article seems to illustrate. Blacks and liberals have repeatedly called Clarence Thomas and Thomas Sowell Uncle Toms. It seems that like racist Uncle Tom is a term that is used irresponsibly or too often, but there is nothing inherently racist about the concept it represents.

If you abhor racism you should abhor thoughtless accusations of racism. You should especially abhor false accusations of racism in response to genuine critiques of racism. This is not the first time this has happened here.

I kind of raised an eyebrow as well when I read that people felt the term was racist. It is an extremely strong term, and should not be used lightly. I can definitely understand why many people would take offense at its casual use, and I don't think that this black LDS apologist deserves to be called an Uncle Tom for his essay. But I also think there is a time and a place for it.