Why Mormons Leave

[UtahDan]

This is interesting mostly for the growth statistic cited:

http://www.religiondispatches.org/ar..._culture_%7c_/

[creekster]

This is the Don Quixote argument, and I accept its validity. That is why I underlined the words 'to me' when pointing out that objective reality seems pretty consistent. Sure, if you read enough books about knights errant, you may find yourself tilting at windmills. I, for one, hope those windmills bring you happiness.

I typed out a sarcastic response but in light of Tim's recent thread I deleted it. I will ask this, do you even realize how condescending and patronizing this sounds?

[FMCoug]

I think Utah especially has huge number of inactive LDS people who just got out of the habit of going to Church or didn't feel comfortable attending any more because of WoW, tithing, or other issues. These are people who don't know and haven't read anything about controversies in Church history or doctrines. Those people aren't filling out a survey like this, that's for sure.

I'm sure that's true. But the other thing that I have noticed is that there are a lot of people in Utah who are active that would not have been in Texas. Those who it is a family / social pressure thing.

I think I have posted this before, but we had a family in our Texas ward who were totally inactive, except for when they had family in town visiting from Utah. Then they put in the show.

[jay santos]

This is interesting mostly for the growth statistic cited:

http://www.religiondispatches.org/ar..._culture_%7c_/

Interesting blog post. Probably deserves its own thread.

In fact, additional studies by Cragun and Phillips show that retention rates of young people (young men especially) raised Mormon have dropped substantially in the last decade: from 92.6% in the 1970s–2000s to 64.4% from 2000–2010.

This was the part I found interesting. This is a huge trend. I wonder if this is the real Operation Rescue. Reaching out to the MoSto crowd doesn't seem like it would be TSM's defining project. He seems like he would be a little oblivious to the plight of the MoSto. But he's always been about serving and loving the inactive back to activity.

These numbers also make me think "Raise the Bar" was a complete failure, and they should eliminate it ASAP.

[RobinFinderson]

I typed out a sarcastic response but in light of Tim's recent thread I deleted it. I will ask this, do you even realize how condescending and patronizing this sounds?

My sympathies, like those of most people who read the book, tilt toward the Man from La Mancha. Of all of the characters in the two books, I relate most with Quixote. I think that the larger epistemological point of the book is that, while objective reality exists outside the mind, no person will ever experience it. We are all Don Quixotes when it comes to reality.

Anyhow, you give me the impression that you are more committed to your sense of reality than I am to mine. i would love to live in a world where people walk on water, heal each other with celestial powers, come back from the dead and where an omnipotent sentient being keeps tabs on the lives of billions of humans, and intercedes on their behalf to smooth out some of life's harsher jolts. To me, the world doesn't seem to work that way.

[UtahDan]

These numbers also make me think "Raise the Bar" was a complete failure, and they should eliminate it ASAP.

I wonder if there is anything that correlates more strongly with retention of men than mission service.

[jay santos]

I wonder if there is anything that correlates more strongly with retention of men than mission service.

Raising the Bar's been a disaster in terms of total missionaries, total baptisms, and apparently retention of young men.

When I was a teen, everyone went on missions, even the jackasses.

Now, my guess is only about 2/3 of the active kids go on missions, and more of them seem to quit or come home early than ever used to, but that could be my small sample size.

[wuapinmon]

These numbers also make me think "Raise the Bar" was a complete failure, and they should eliminate it ASAP.

Not only that, but it denies the Atonement to our youth and sort of contradicts scripture in the Book of Mormon.

[FMCoug]

Not only that, but it denies the Atonement to our youth and sort of contradicts scripture in the Book of Mormon.

This was the thing that struck me.

Also the stuff about preparation. As a relatively new convert with a mullah SP who made no secret of his "concerns" about me due to my background, it occurred to me that I might not have "qualified" under the new policy.

If that were the case, I would likely be one of the statistics cited.

[wuapinmon]

This was the thing that struck me.

Also the stuff about preparation. As a relatively new convert with a mullah SP who made no secret of his "concerns" about me due to my background, it occurred to me that I might not have "qualified" under the new policy.

If that were the case, I would likely be one of the statistics cited.

They wouldn't have let me serve. I was 25 lbs over the limit. That would've led me out of the Church, and it still pisses me off when I think about the new "guidelines" that contradict scripture, "If ye have desires to serve, and aren't too fat, ye are called to the work."

[Viking]

I think there's a strong chance that there's a high correlation between the "weak" 20-30 something cohort in the church and "raise the bar".

Look, I just don't have the believing gene, but i knew a lot of fellas who would not qualify under raise the bar that went on missions and are the bedrock of the church right now.

[TripletDaddy]

How are they defining those "retention" rates for young males? What constitutes retention?

Part of me wonders whether this type of survey is indicative that our rates have dropped as much as our record keeping has become more accurate. Also, is there a greater global trend towards irreligiosity, regardless of denomination?

How long has the Church announced census data at conference? The raw numbers don't seem to be causing the Church to run and hide.

I would argue that Raise the Bar might be a failure if your sole goal is to pump up numbers. If your long term goal is to bring solid converts to the fold, then Raise the Bar might be a successful first step towards that end. That being said, there does seem to be something fundamentally wrong with telling a kid that he can't go on a youth mission AT ALL because he broke the law chastity, yet he can wait one year, receive the Melch, go to the temple, get sealed, and just about everything else the gospel has to offer. Some of the most powerful scriptural missionaries were knuckleheads that messed up prior to (or during) their missions.

[Non Sequitur]

Look, I just don't have the believing gene, but i knew a lot of fellas who would not qualify under raise the bar that went on missions and are the bedrock of the church right now.

My two best friends in high school turned me on to cannibus. They coerced me into it every weekend until the last several months before our missions. They're both Stake Presidents now. Two points for the low bar.

[Portland Ute]

I'm sure that's true. But the other thing that I have noticed is that there are a lot of people in Utah who are active that would not have been in Texas. Those who it is a family / social pressure thing.

I think I have posted this before, but we had a family in our Texas ward who were totally inactive, except for when they had family in town visiting from Utah. Then they put in the show.

Is this necessarily a bad thing....the ” Utah Mormon?”

It would seem from anyone would benefit from contact with the saints and the one true church, no?

[myboynoah]

Can someone tell me what "raise the bar" means in practice? Are there guidelines? What is the line which is not to be crossed?