exmo.com comes to WashPo

[ERCougar]

Can a Candidate Be Too Perfect? by Jana Riess
I was watching some clips of Mitt ripping Newt to pieces in the Florida debates, and it was good to see that he can be a real lion. My favorite Mitt quote was something to the effect, "If someone came into my office and said that we needed to invest a huge amount of our company's money into establishing a colony on the moon, I'd say to that person, 'You're fired.'" Jon Stewart did a fantastic segment on this last night. It was good to see that Mitt has some real fire in his belly. But this also goes to show that Mitt might really be 'too perfect.' It sounds insane, but Mormonism might be the most successful cultural incubator for generating model Republicans, and the rest of the party kind of resents that. Riess closes with a very nice summary that recognizes what I have been saying all along, that the biggest problem with Mitt is that he is a Mormon:

Mormonstories recently did a really nice interview with Jana Riess. She has an interesting story and is an articulate voice for the church. She converted in her early 20s (?) from a career path into a Protestant ministry, IIRC. Well worth the listen.

She tells a funny anecdote about a year long sabbatical she took from church activity in 2000. She tells how she would run into a RS sister at the grocery store who would tell her how they've missed her at church, to which she'd reply, "Oh, I'll be back on September 1." No one really knew how to receive that.

[ERCougar]

So the interesting question this all raises (credit SIEQ) is the effect that all of this publicity will have on the church and its membership. This is only the tip of the iceberg. Sexism, temple polygamy, political involvement--all are sure to hit the front pages of the NYT. What's our response? Adaptation, a la 1978, or further retrenchment into an us-against-the-wicked-world stance?

[Jacob]

How many of our beloved board apostates here have been "shunned"?

In my experience, none.

Attacking her (or praising her) based on her physical appearance is bush league and wouldn't happen if she was a man. This makes you look like an ass.

Actually. Mitt Romney is an attractive fellow and Ron Paul is funny looking.
See? You are wrong.

[RobinFinderson]

Mormons' Double Legacy, by Laurie A. Maffly-Kipp

Laurie does the best job of describing the mistrust many Americans feel toward Mormons:

I call this double legacy the “invasion of the body snatchers” syndrome: no matter how much Mormon behavior conforms to what most consider admirable (and maybe especially because they look so wholesome), some Americans are convinced Mormons secretly await an opportunity to take over the world. Nothing Mitt Romney or others might say can assuage that deep-seated anxiety. And insisting it has no basis in fact only raises some people’s fears further.

It is like I've said before, Mormons are the RobinFinderson of the American religious world -- for a significant minority of Americans, it will never matter what you do, good or otherwise, it will all form a negative impression in a prejudiced mind.

[Pelado]

Mormons' Double Legacy, by Laurie A. Maffly-Kipp

Laurie does the best job of describing the mistrust many Americans feel toward Mormons:



It is like I've said before, Mormons are the RobinFinderson of the American religious world -- for a significant minority of Americans, it will never matter what you do, good or otherwise, it will all form a negative impression in a prejudiced mind.

How can we trust your opinion? You're probably just secretly plotting to take over CUF.

[Eddie]

As I've thought about this more, I've decided that while actual true shunning is probably extremely rare - the apostate's perceptions of being shunned are probably pretty real.

Just looking at my own family - we have an extended family "family night" once a month on a Sunday evening, complete with gospel lesson. A large number of family gatherings revolve around baby blessings, baptisms, missionaries coming and going, first time endowment sessions for someone, temple marriages, Christmas traditions...and the list goes on.

Sure, family gets together for holidays as well. But if you were avoiding the religiously focused gatherings you would miss out on a lot of family events. If you aren't active, you have no choice but to miss out on some (the temple centered stuff) and I suppose being inactive could lead to some discomfort issues and choosing to skip others.

And that is just from the inactive/apostate person's perspective. I'm sure there are plenty of instances of family members not wanting the inactive/apostate to feel as if they are being pressured - so they aren't sure about how to approach one about inviting them to attend certain events without seeming to be pushing an agenda.

Anyway - I guess I'm just saying that from my perspective a lot of this can be chalked up to sensitivity and perhaps even a lack of communication. It might be important to have a conversation at some point - initiated by either side - simply saying something along the lines of "I know you don't attend church anymore. That's your choice. As a family we aren't going to change everything we do based on that choice. How would you prefer we proceed, keeping your feelings and beliefs in mind? Do you want to be invited to this stuff or not?"

Anyway - it seems like if there could be some frank communication while keeping the emotions out of it. Both sides need to realize that people don't quit the church because they want to hurt their mom and mom's don't push the church because they want to hurt their kids.

Of course - that's the challenge, isn't it...

[FMCoug]

As I've thought about this more, I've decided that while actual true shunning is probably extremely rare - the apostate's perceptions of being shunned are probably pretty real.

Just looking at my own family - we have an extended family "family night" once a month on a Sunday evening, complete with gospel lesson. A large number of family gatherings revolve around baby blessings, baptisms, missionaries coming and going, first time endowment sessions for someone, temple marriages, Christmas traditions...and the list goes on.

Sure, family gets together for holidays as well. But if you were avoiding the religiously focused gatherings you would miss out on a lot of family events. If you aren't active, you have no choice but to miss out on some (the temple centered stuff) and I suppose being inactive could lead to some discomfort issues and choosing to skip others.

And that is just from the inactive/apostate person's perspective. I'm sure there are plenty of instances of family members not wanting the inactive/apostate to feel as if they are being pressured - so they aren't sure about how to approach one about inviting them to attend certain events without seeming to be pushing an agenda.

Anyway - I guess I'm just saying that from my perspective a lot of this can be chalked up to sensitivity and perhaps even a lack of communication. It might be important to have a conversation at some point - initiated by either side - simply saying something along the lines of "I know you don't attend church anymore. That's your choice. As a family we aren't going to change everything we do based on that choice. How would you prefer we proceed, keeping your feelings and beliefs in mind? Do you want to be invited to this stuff or not?"

Anyway - it seems like if there could be some frank communication while keeping the emotions out of it. Both sides need to realize that people don't quit the church because they want to hurt their mom and mom's don't push the church because they want to hurt their kids.

Of course - that's the challenge, isn't it...

This is a great post. My perspective comes from that of a convert who married into a convert family so the extended family thing doesn't really resonate with me. But I can see how that would be an issue.

Sometimes I feel like I am handicapped by the fact that not only did I not grow up or have a big Mormon family, but really a family at all. My wife likes to say my childhood perspective of "family" comes from The Cosby Show and Family Ties.

[Flystripper]

How can we trust your opinion? You're probably just secretly plotting to take over CUF.

And Pelado strikes at the heart of many Cuffer's fear...

[Jeff Lebowski]

How can we trust your opinion? You're probably just secretly plotting to take over CUF.

Bring it on, Finderson.

[Moliere]

Mormons' Double Legacy, by Laurie A. Maffly-Kipp

Laurie does the best job of describing the mistrust many Americans feel toward Mormons:



It is like I've said before, Mormons are the RobinFinderson of the American religious world -- for a significant minority of Americans, it will never matter what you do, good or otherwise, it will all form a negative impression in a prejudiced mind.

Is there anyway we can get SpaceGhost into Mitt's inner circle to get the ball rolling before November?

[CardiacCoug]

This is confounding me. What is the point? No non-mormon anthropologist or Egyptologist believes that the BOM is literally true? Well that's obvious. Nobody needs to be told that non-believers don't believe. It is a tautology. I seriously doubt that many intelligent people go to college believing otherwise.

Is it your position that the church actively teaches that non-believers believe the Book of Mormon to be literally true? That would be strange indeed.

What's confounding you? Of course the BOM narrative has no mainstream (i.e. non-LDS) scientific support. Yet this lady said that she came to BYU and then suddenly has this realization that nothing in Mormonism is scientifically supportable? No shit, it's religion not science.

Well the Church does offer the FARMS stuff which imitates objective science but since it can only have one LDS-promoting outcome it's clearly the opposite of science. I guess what I'm saying is that rather than offer the weak FARMs type "research" into Book of Mormon history it would be better to inoculate kids saying, "You just take this on faith. There is no evidence it actually happened."

[FMCoug]

Don't Egyptologist's say pretty much the same thing about Moses and the Israelites in Egypt? That there is no evidence supporting it? Big deal.

[SuperGabers]

Bring it on, Finderson.

I already have the name for it:

Forum of Utes and Cougars, or FUC.

[Pelado]

I already have the name for it:

Forum of Utes and Cougars, or FUC.

Where do I sign up to FUC?

[FMCoug]

Where do I sign up to FUC?

Here. You can campaign for Mitt while you're there too.