exmo.com comes to WashPo

[Pheidippides]

So it's time for scorched earth?

We have lots of well-loved apostates around here. What you say matters very much.

Pro tip: how you say it matters just as much if not more.

[NorthwestUteFan]

The problem is, Mormons are so heavily interconnected that a parent will take it as a personal rejection when a child leaves the faith because it affects the 'eternal family' concept. Not only is the daughter 'rejecting' her family in this life, but in the eternities as well. In that case the reaction is likely worse than for most other religions (outside of Islam, as previously mentioned).

[UtahDan]

Where have I or anyone else claimed her story is unique or rare? I have encountered countless people like her in my life.

Were they all as flawed as the first page of this thread suggests you and others see her as? Look at all the things that just you have called her. Shallow, hyperbolic, ranting, axe-grinding, conspiracy believing. How else to explain someone whose view of reality is so wide of the mark? My point in saying that these stories are common is to highlight for you that you don't need any of the defects you are suggesting to get where she is. Enough people are there that it seems to be a pretty normal response given the right set of conditions.

The claim that believers often ascribe non-belief to flaws in the person of one kind or another is one that most people here would reject at least for themselves, I think. But it kind of looks to me like that is what was happening. Thinking she is wrong is valid. Thinking she is flawed and off her rocker isn't.

[Indy Coug]

Actually, I think Mormon theology allows more wiggle room for people to work out their situation post-mortality to get themselves right with God than most other faiths do. I've seen some seriously bad family reactions to children leaving Judeo-Christian faiths their ancestors had belonged to going back centuries or even millennia. To think our reactions are any worse than other faiths is highly questionable.

[UtahDan]

I love you too.

By the way, don't we have a "hug" emoticon. That is what I really wanted here.

[UtahDan]

You didn't write the article. It wasn't mean to you.

Oh I thought you were talking about what I was saying.

[UtahDan]

Pro tip: how you say it matters just as much if not more.

Not saying you Niku, but I have noticed that many people who talk about the importance of things being said the right way don't seem to be thinking about that concept as relates to how they communicate.

[LA Ute]

The problem is, Mormons are so heavily interconnected that a parent will take it as a personal rejection when a child leaves the faith because it affects the 'eternal family' concept. Not only is the daughter 'rejecting' her family in this life, but in the eternities as well. In that case the reaction is likely worse than for most other religions (outside of Islam, as previously mentioned).

This is a good point. I am not sure that our reaction is worse that others, though. We don't think our "prodigals" are going to end up in a lake of everlasting fire and brimstone, for example. But I think we do feel a type of sadness over them that is unique to our faith. To a parent who loves a child deeply, the sadness of contemplating not being with that child in the eternities, and the sadness over the opportunities for joy that the child is foregoing, can be profound. Both sides in such situations would do well to appreciate this, IMO.

[UtahDan]

Actually, I think Mormon theology allows more wiggle room for people to work out their situation post-mortality to get themselves right with God than most other faiths do. I've seen some seriously bad family reactions to children leaving Judeo-Christian faiths their ancestors had belonged to going back centuries or even millennia. To think our reactions are any worse than other faiths is highly questionable.

Whether it is or not, that is a pretty low bar, no?

[creekster]

Whether it is or not, that is a pretty low bar, no?

Yes, humanity is a low bar. SO what?

BTW, no one thinks she is flawed, AFAIK. I don't. I think she is whiny and is intentionally or recklessly using her positon to promote ideas and prejudices that are flase and misleading, at best. I think we should all try to be nice to each other, but just as I wouldnt leap to the defense of some over-heated BOM thumper, I don't expect you to do so for complaints of this quality.

[jay santos]

This is a good point. I am not sure that our reaction is worse that others, though. We don't think our "prodigals" are going to end up in a lake of everlasting fire and brimstone, for example. But I think we do feel a type of sadness over them that is unique to our faith. To a parent who loves a child deeply, the sadness of contemplating not being with that child in the eternities, and the sadness over the opportunities for joy that the child is foregoing, can be profound. Both sides in such situations would do well to appreciate this, IMO.

Adult children have zero responsibility to their parents in the way of living a religion. Parents have 100% of the responsibility in this, IMO. Kids should be respectful, but that's the extent of it. This thing we do in the Mormon church of weeping and wailing over wayward children is pretty ridiculous. Several old people in my ward get up and talk about the trials of their life dealing with children who have gone astray. Makes me think, big surprise with parents like that why they chose a different path.

[LA Ute]

I love you too.

By the way, don't we have a "hug" emoticon. That is what I really wanted here.

[TripletDaddy]

I don't know if a Mos angst is any greater than the Jewish mom that finds out her son is dating a heina from the barrio. One my closest friends from home wound up dating and marrying a hispanic girl and his Jewish mom about nearly died. It was a really big deal to not marry a Jewish girl.

Similarly, there was a Chinese girl in my old practice group that met and wound up dating a Japanese guy from our Pacific Rim practice group. She lived in NorCal but had moved down to LA after graduation to start her career and be on her own. We were all up in Palo Alto working on a client matter for a week and we met up for dinner with her family. This girl was so nervous to break the ice with her dad that she decided to do it while we were all there. That went over like a ton of bricks. It didn't last, either. She broke up with the guy a couple of months later because her parents threatened to stop giving her cash.

Parents do weird stuff. Not unique to Mos.

[TripletDaddy]

[UtahDan]

Yes, humanity is a low bar. SO what?

BTW, no one thinks she is flawed, AFAIK. I don't. I think she is whiny and is intentionally or recklessly using her positon to promote ideas and prejudices that are flase and misleading, at best. I think we should all try to be nice to each other, but just as I wouldnt leap to the defense of some over-heated BOM thumper, I don't expect you to do so for complaints of this quality.

So she is overly sensitive (whiny) and either doesn't care about the truth or knows she is lying (ntentionally or recklessly using her positon to promote ideas and prejudices that are flase and misleading). But she is not flawed. When you say flawed, what do you mean? What do you imagine I might mean by that?

If someone were thumping their BOM and I said they were overly sensitive and didn't care about the truth or lying, you would jump to their defense whether you agreed with their underlying points or not. Because them being in error would be a more likely explanation for what they are saying than would be the foregoing.