Occupy Stake Conference

[pelagius]

Isn't that a vestige of the old MoDoc days?

Yes but it goes back much further than that. Not surprisingly Joseph Fielding Smith had a pretty negative view of face cards as well (I think you can find some discussion in Doctrines of Salvation). Of course, one might see JSF as part of the MoDoc era (at the very least he influenced it fairly directly).

Still, it goes back to the 19th/early 20th century. There were definitely counsel from 19th/early 20th century leaders not to play cards. My impression is that they didn't think there was anything wrong with the cards themselves but rather didn't like what card playing correlated with (I think the complaints about the actual cards being objectionable came later). For example, vices such as drinking or not supporting the family. Also, sometimes they seemed to complain that it was just a waste of time that limited service in the church. I seem to remember one 19th century complaint about temple works not showing up or doing their work because they were playing cards (but I may be misremembering since I can't remember who I think said it).

[pellegrino]

Seriously? You must be younger than I thought. I haven't heard it mentioned in many years, but it used to come up quite frequently in lessons. Modoc was the source most often quoted.

yep, when I was little (pre-teen years) there were many mothers who fussed over kids wanting to play with face cards, even simple games, like go fish. They were convinced there was something satanic in the images of the cards.

[Northwestcoug]

yep, when I was little (pre-teen years) there were many mothers who fussed over kids wanting to play with face cards, even simple games, like go fish. They were convinced there was something satanic in the images of the cards.

Yep. I knew more than one family who would only play Rook, because Rook didn't use face cards. Also, I remember one family who after a good deal of mental anguish, was OK with Disney face cards. They were concerned that even though Mickey, Minnie, and others replaced the King, Queen, etc., they were still face cards in spirit. In the end, they rationalized it was OK.

Does anyone else remember a legend of how the face cards came to be? I have a vague memory of a paper that detailed the medieval origin of face cards, and it involved Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in a blasphemous story. I can't remember if it was in Mo Doc, but I did read it somewhere.

[Northwestcoug]

Also, I could have sworn there was a Mormonad that had hands holding alcohol, tabacco, and playing cards in the same picture. I couldn't find it. Here's something that's close, but it's specifically about gambling.



Lest anyone think the counsel against playing cards was isolated to a few rogue wards, it was preached from the GC pulpit:

"We hope faithful Latter-day Saints will not use the playing cards which are used for gambling, either with or without the gambling."
-SWK, April 1974, repeated in November 1974 just for good measure

Here's the Mo Doc reference:

"President Joseph F. Smith has stated the position of the Church with reference to card playing in these words:
'Card playing is an intoxicating and therefore, in the nature of a vice. It is generally the companion of the cigaret and wine glass.....A deck of cards in the hands of a faithful servant of God is a satire upon religion...Those who thus indulge are not fit to administer in sacred ordinance...The bishops are charged with the responsibility for the evil and it is their duty to see that it is abolished...No man who is addicted to card playing should be called to act as a ward teacher.....Card playing is a game of chance and because it is a game of chance it has its tricks. It encourage tricks....'(Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., pp. 328-332)
Members of the Church should not belong to bridge or other type of card clubs, and they should neither play cards nor have them in their homes. By cards is meant, of course, the spotted face cards used by gamblers. To the extent that church members play cards they are out of harmony with their inspired leaders. Innocent non-gambling games played with other types of cards, except for the waste of time in many instances, are not objectionable."

Also, while wasting 20 minutes at work looking for the Mormonad, I was surprised at the number of contemporary blogs (i.e. less than 10 years old) that quoted Mo Doc about playing cards. Most of them agreed with counsel against playing them, in a kind of 'lesser commandment but I'm still going to obey it anyway because a prophet said it' way. I can't recall hearing anything about this over the pulpit for a long time, though.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yep. I knew more than one family who would only play Rook, because Rook didn't use face cards. Also, I remember one family who after a good deal of mental anguish, was OK with Disney face cards. They were concerned that even though Mickey, Minnie, and others replaced the King, Queen, etc., they were still face cards in spirit. In the end, they rationalized it was OK.

Does anyone else remember a legend of how the face cards came to be? I have a vague memory of a paper that detailed the medieval origin of face cards, and it involved Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in a blasphemous story. I can't remember if it was in Mo Doc, but I did read it somewhere.

We had Rook cards in our home when I was a kid because my mother would not allow face cards. I used to get a real thrill when someone would smuggle in face cards to a campout because it felt like we were getting away with something. As was the case with many other things, my mother eased up on that in later years.

[LA Ute]

Seriously? You must be younger than I thought. I haven't heard it mentioned in many years, but it used to come up quite frequently in lessons. Modoc was the source most often quoted.

As a kid I heard my much older brother in-law say we shouldn't play face cards on Sundays. That's as much as I've ever heard about it. But for a long time I didn't play face cards on Sundays. I later fell away from that level of devoutness.

[Moliere]

My mom taught her kids to play all different kinds of card games. We had at least 10 decks in our home and would spend Sunday afternoon playing Gin, Speed, or Nertz. Of course, she also grew up in Vegas.

[doctorcoug]

So did you show up early and set out your family's scriptures to reserve a place in front in the soft seats and then go back home? This is what usually happens in my stake. I show up to see all these scriptures reserving my favorite seats by the door but no owners.

Once I took the scriptures to the lost and found box. The family showed up right before the meeting is to start and asked me if I had seen their scriptures. I said something like, "Man, I hate when I lose my scriptures. Did you check the lost and found?" My wife was embarrassed and made me promise not to do that again so now we just sit in the very back usually which has better access to the exits anyway.

Nice!

I live almost two hours from the stake center so there is no scripture laying from our family. After years of this we have decided that turning on the audio feed in the nursery is the best way for my wife and I to get anything out of the meeting after the long car trip.

Also, Joseph F Smith was to the extreme. He thinks playing cards was an evil thing to do...but multiple wives was A OK?

[TripletDaddy]

That's as much as I've ever heard about it. But for a long time I didn't play face cards on Sundays. I later fell away from that level of devoutness.

Apparently in your devoutness you weren't listening to general conference or reading Mormon Doctrine.

Also, if your story were true, you ceased playing cards (on Sundays) solely because your brother in law said so?

[TripletDaddy]

My mom taught her kids to play all different kinds of card games. We had at least 10 decks in our home and would spend Sunday afternoon playing Gin, Speed, or Nertz. Of course, she also grew up in Vegas.

I think many members are making up for lost time by playing card games today that require multiple decks of cards simultaneously.

[Pheidippides]

Yep. I knew more than one family who would only play Rook, because Rook didn't use face cards. Also, I remember one family who after a good deal of mental anguish, was OK with Disney face cards. They were concerned that even though Mickey, Minnie, and others replaced the King, Queen, etc., they were still face cards in spirit. In the end, they rationalized it was OK.

Does anyone else remember a legend of how the face cards came to be? I have a vague memory of a paper that detailed the medieval origin of face cards, and it involved Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in a blasphemous story. I can't remember if it was in Mo Doc, but I did read it somewhere.

I can't remember the details but I heard the face cards things multiple times growing up. Even then I thought it was dumb. Not surprisingly, I was also the kid ringleading the poker games on scout camps.

I have to be frank: I don't see the inherent evils of gambling any more than I do in high fructose corn syrup or television. All of these things are bad when used to an excess (and I'd argue the middle one is the worst). But if you go into gambling with the sense that (1) it's all math, (2) when they say 98% payout, they are really saying that they take 2% of your money for the privilege of playing their games, and (3) the only value in it is entertainment, I don't see it as being any worse than anythings else on the whole. (Don't get me started on lotteries, however, and I'm not a fan of slot machines outside of large established casinos, both for the same reason).

[Indy Coug]

The thing about the evils of face cards predates Mormonism.

Tarot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[LA Ute]

Apparently in your devoutness you weren't listening to general conference or reading Mormon Doctrine.

Also, if your story were true, you ceased playing cards (on Sundays) solely because your brother in law said so?

I was about 7 years old when he said this.

[Jacob]

In stake conference today, I watched the kids while the wife occupied. She reported that Elder Uchdorf's wit and good looks have even forced Elder Holland to submit to the german's celebrity as he cracked self-depricating jokes about how the audience wanted Holland to sit down so that they could hear Dieter speak.

[TripletDaddy]

I was about 7 years old when he said this.

I'm taking your post at face value. You claimed your BIL was the sole source of that practice and that you never heard it anywhere else from any other source at any other time. This would mean that you never read MoDoc or I guess listened to Pres. Kimball in conference. Also, no other member of the Church ever mentioned it to you.