Do you feel like a consumer at church?

[jay santos]

Well, I'm probably the second type of attender a "borderlander" in your definition.

I don't see my involvement the same way you see it.

I really feel not like a consumer, but more like I owe a debt. I have to will myself there most of the time but I am almost always glad I did.

I see the more faithful there try to welcome me... and I do appreciate it, but it's not necessary. I often wonder what they think or why they do this. I am not easy to reach, or even to reach out to.

I've just decided that they are good people that are trying their best to live the principles that they believe.

I don't expect, wish, or even want anyone to bend over backwards for me (one tiny bit or at all), but they still do.

That is easy for me to respect. Those people really living what they believe, and putting their faith into action has my admiration. It makes me want to be more like that.

Based on what you're saying, I'd put you in the first group. The group that attends primarily for faith reasons, ie to worship or to serve or to obey or out of duty.

[Katy Lied]

To me, religious consumerism is what you see in mega churches headed up by the likes of Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, and others preaching the Gospel of Prosperity.

The notion that God chooses to bless the faithful with oodles of material wealth is recycled from early American prostestant beliefs, recycled in the 1980s. Adherents pay some token money to the preacher, and in return, the preacher validates the wealth of the congregants, telling them "The reason you are blessed with all this wealth is not because you are unethical sons-of-bitches who will cut the throat of your competitors and employees alike, it's because you are so pious, and God wants to reward your for your piety."

Call it Health-and-Wealth Theology, The Prosperity Gospel, or Name-It-And-Claim-It, they are all the same. They enable people to sleep at night despite an utter lack of charity. They provide validation for the pursuit of money. They don't even hearken to the scriptures, and they never talk about immorality or evil. Just do what you want in the pursuit of wealth, and they will bless you.

These are the consumer churches.

[Devildog]

Sully and Devil, I wasn't clear.

I was thinking more along the Mormon Stories discussions we've been having in talking about the borderlander group. ie a group that would demand the church change its stance on gay marriage in order to feel comfortable attending. I'm not talking about bending over backwards in terms of reactivation efforts, but more like drastically changing church practices, ie gay marriage, women's role in leadership, etc.

Well in that context... I'm not a borderlander then. I don't care about gay marriage one way or the other.

If they stood for one hour long meeting on Sunday and halved the other day of the week commitments... then I could closer associate with 'em.

[creekster]

The question uses simple, readily understood words. If you want to explore the definition of any of them, by all means do so.

They may be easily understood but they are also subject to multiple reasonable meanings as is evidenced by the ensuing discussion. Thus while the discussion may be meaningful the poll is not very useful.

[ERCougar]

Everyone is a consumer at church--or they wouldn't go.

The question is, how much right do we feel like we have to dictate the direction of the church? Personally, I don't feel the right or the desire to, but I realize there are borderlanders who do. However, I don't think this is any less common among the orthodox/traditional/whatever name we decided is least offensive. Sure, on a macro scale, they're more willing to defer to what the global leadership says, but who are the ones directing the discussions, unapologetically and often beyond what any leadership has declared, at church? This is at least as important as what comes out of SLC.

That said, there's nothing wrong with looking at what you get out of church. Joseph Smith did the same thing. It's part of what differentiates us from a cult.

[jay santos]

Well in that context... I'm not a borderlander then. I don't care about gay marriage one way or the other.

If they stood for one hour long meeting on Sunday and halved the other day of the week commitments... then I could closer associate with 'em.

I might be reading SIEQ wrong, but I think this is what he meant with the consumer thing. I think he has demands for the church, and they're not listening, and he thinks it should be more of a consumer/seller role where the seller listens and responds to the consumer. But now he's going to yell at me for influencing the direction of his thread where he left it intentionally vague. Sorry SIEQ!

[Surfah]

The question uses simple, readily understood words. If you want to explore the definition of any of them, by all means do so.

Very well. I am a prosumer.

[ERCougar]

Very well. I am a prosumer.

Best answer.

[Devildog]

Best answer.

[ERCougar]

Nah...I don't think so. Even if he is saying exactly what I said earlier, I think his comment was sincere.

[Devildog]

I think his comment was sincere.

and succinct.

[YOhio]

Trick question. We're not supposed to spend money on Sunday.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

I'm a consumer, especially during the sacrament.

[Katy Lied]

and succinct.

lol

I'm a consumer, especially during the sacrament.

where's the profound smiley?

[Sullyute]

I might be reading SIEQ wrong, but I think this is what he meant with the consumer thing. I think he has demands for the church, and they're not listening, and he thinks it should be more of a consumer/seller role where the seller listens and responds to the consumer. But now he's going to yell at me for influencing the direction of his thread where he left it intentionally vague. Sorry SIEQ!

That makes sense. I will be frank and say that there are many occasions where I feel like I am being sold a bag of goods at church. Certain practices, view points, beliefs, standards, etc that are nice, but not essentials for my salvation. Some of these nice but non-essential products are home & visting teaching, white shirts, monthly temple attendance, no facial hair, one pair of earings, EFY, books written by church leaders, anything at Deseret Book, tithing settlement, food storage, family home evening, superiority of the KJB, and of course BYU sports .

There are also plenty of opinions of church leaders that are also nice and uplifting but not essential for my salvation (i.e. when to use the term "mormon" and "lds" in regards to the church, whose faith is required for a priesthood blessing, belief in the historcity of the BOM, etc).

I go back to the old quote of Joseph Smith, "The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it."