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Please feel elaborate on your answer.
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31Yes16.13%5No83.87%26We all trust our own unorthodoxies. -
No, I feel more liked a producer.Originally posted by Sleeping in EQ View Post"Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf -
Please feel free to elaborate on your question.Originally posted by Sleeping in EQ View Post"Nobody listens to Turtle."-TurtlesigpicComment
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I too am curious about the definition of consumer.Originally posted by Surfah View Post"Wuap's "problem" is that he is smart & principled & committed to a moral course of action. His actions are supposed to reflect his ethical code.
The rest of us rarely bother to think about our actions." --SolonComment
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The question uses simple, readily understood words. If you want to explore the definition of any of them, by all means do so.Originally posted by Surfah View PostWe all trust our own unorthodoxies.Comment
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I think the answer lies in the degree of faith/belief a person has.
If a person believes powerfully in his faith, the motives for attending church are outward: serving and worshiping. In this sense, like EJ says, the person is more of a producer, taking part in building up the kingdom of God.
If a person is lacking faith, then church is kind of like an entertainment option, and the attitude is a little more selfish, like what you can do for me.
Good topic, SIEQ. This is another good topic that shows my disconnect with the borderlander community. It's certainly not wrong for a person lacking faith to attend church. But it's also not wrong for a church to expect its members to attend church for faithful reasons, and not bend over backwards to win over the second type of attenders.Comment
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I voted NO... I feel more like an employee."Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam CarollaComment
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I actually find it sad that I'm not also a consumer, well I am sometimes but very rarely.Originally posted by jay santos View Post"Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. UchtdorfComment
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This poll should allow for multiple answers.Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!
For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.
Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."
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I voted yes but I'm looking to move my business online.Comment
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This says a lot about you.Originally posted by jay santos View Post"We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
-Thucydides
"Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."-Miyamoto Musashi
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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I am not exactly sure what you mean by "believes powerfully in his faith"? What I understand you to mean is that if you are going to church strickly out of love for God then you are probably a producer. Anything less than pure love for God and your fellowman then you are a consumer. So 99.99% of those attending church are consumers and do so out of some sort of selfish reason. I actually give greater props to those who lack faith as it is considerable harder to attend church when your belief is waning.Originally posted by jay santos View Post
Ok if the Church is not expected to "bend over backwards" to help those lacking faith, how far should they bend to help those needing faith? I remember somebody saying that we should leave the 99 and seek after the 1. I guess he must have had it wrong.Good topic, SIEQ. This is another good topic that shows my disconnect with the borderlander community. It's certainly not wrong for a person lacking faith to attend church. But it's also not wrong for a church to expect its members to attend church for faithful reasons, and not bend over backwards to win over the second type of attenders.
"Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.Comment
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Well, I'm probably the second type of attender a "borderlander" in your definition.Originally posted by jay santos View Post
I don't see my involvement the same way you see it.
I really feel not like a consumer, but more like I owe a debt. I have to will myself there most of the time but I am almost always glad I did.
I see the more faithful there try to welcome me... and I do appreciate it, but it's not necessary. I often wonder what they think or why they do this. I am not easy to reach, or even to reach out to.
I've just decided that they are good people that are trying their best to live the principles that they believe.
I don't expect, wish, or even want anyone to bend over backwards for me (one tiny bit or at all), but they still do.
That is easy for me to respect. Those people really living what they believe, and putting their faith into action has my admiration. It makes me want to be more like that."We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
-Thucydides
"Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."-Miyamoto Musashi
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Sully and Devil, I wasn't clear.
I was thinking more along the Mormon Stories discussions we've been having in talking about the borderlander group. ie a group that would demand the church change its stance on gay marriage in order to feel comfortable attending. I'm not talking about bending over backwards in terms of reactivation efforts, but more like drastically changing church practices, ie gay marriage, women's role in leadership, etc.Comment
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