The "overheard at scout camp" thread

[NorthwestUteFan]

It wasn't the Subway, I am pretty sure it was Kolob Canyon.

That would make more sense, thanks. I believe Kolob has its own seperate (small) reservoir upstream.

[Uncle Ted]

So I learned on Sunday that, unlike in years past, our ward will not be paying the way for the leaders who attend high adventure camp. I am now being asked to pay $275 of my own money to take a week off from work and spend it in the mountains with a bunch of flatulent boys.

And just like that, I'm only available for the Thurs-Fri-Sat portion of camp.

Did they mention all the required training you are going to need yet? BSA Wilderness First Aid, for example, is about $200 alone. I am certified in most all the BSA stuff plus NRA rifles and shotguns, scuba, etc. In all, I have most likely spent $1,500 for training over my scouting tenure that I use primary for high adventures. Of course, I have made most of it back in camping equipment that some of the boys have left laying around and never claimed which I then rent back to them for a small fee.

[Paperback Writer]

Did they mention all the required training you are going to need yet? BSA Wilderness First Aid, for example, is about $200 alone. I am certified in most all the BSA stuff plus NRA rifles and shotguns, scuba, etc. In all, I have most likely spent $1,500 for training over my scouting tenure that I use primary for high adventures. Of course, I have made most of it back in camping equipment that some of the boys have left laying around and never claimed which I then rent back to them for a small fee.

And don't forget all the gas $$$ spent to and from scout camp/high adventure and hauling YM around. Then only to find that the parents are not home when you drop junior & brother off with all some of their gear. Made the mistake of giving the parents a courtesy call with an ETA on the way in and they decided they would go out to eat before their smelly boys got home. They showed up 40 minutes later after insisting their boys be dropped off at their locked house rather than the church building.

[kccougar]

I have never heard a satisfactory explanation for why YM and YW can't be on equal footing in terms of funding.

I don't think the disparity is very large when you consider the funds that are typically spent on a stake level (the ward never sees it) for YW camp. In my stake and according to the handbook, YM and YW are each allowed one fundraiser per year.

The fact that YW go to the same place every year to do the same skits and sing the same songs is more an issue with the local leadership planning the camps than it is with any governing church policy. Tradition!

On a separate note. I too had some great high adventure trips as a youth that we had to raise money for and that would be more difficult to pull off today. One year we drove from Kansas City to the Colorado Rockies for a week of wilderness survival with rapelling, night hiking, building our own shelters, camping by ourselves, eating with sticks, etc. Another year we drove from KC to the Minnesota boundary waters and canoed from lake to lake for a week.

Aside from funding and liability issues, I have also found that kids and parents just aren't interested in that kind of stuff much anymore. Last summer we planned a backpacking trip in Yellowstone, and I was surprised by the number of YM (and parents) that were generally apathetic to the whole idea.

[Uncle Ted]

I have never heard a satisfactory explanation for why YM and YW can't be on equal footing in terms of funding.

I say, let's have high adventures all around.

The church owns some very nice girl camps resorts like the Heber Valley Camp. I have been all over this camp on a snowmobile and it seems better than all the BSA camps I have been too. My wife said there was a church owned girls camp near where she grew up in Northern Cal that she would go to all the time. I don't know of any YM camps owned by the church. All the ones that I have been too are BSA owned.

[thesaint258]

So I learned on Sunday that, unlike in years past, our ward will not be paying the way for the leaders who attend high adventure camp. I am now being asked to pay $275 of my own money to take a week off from work and spend it in the mountains with a bunch of flatulent boys.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I'm not sure I'd even take off Thursday and Friday.

[happyone]

The church owns some very nice girl camps resorts like the Heber Valley Camp. I have been all over this camp on a snowmobile and it seems better than all the BSA camps I have been too. My wife said there was a church owned girls camp near where she grew up in Northern Cal that she would go to all the time. I don't know of any YM camps owned by the church. All the ones that I have been too are BSA owned.

Several of the Stakes around here owned camps. The church took them over a few years ago. Layton has a nice one up in Uintas that is available to the general membership, if girls camps are not using it and you can get into it.

Last year we had the Ward campout up there and the Fathers and Sons outings have traditionally been held there.

[kccougar]

The church owns some very nice girl camps resorts like the Heber Valley Camp. I have been all over this camp on a snowmobile and it seems better than all the BSA camps I have been too. My wife said there was a church owned girls camp near where she grew up in Northern Cal that she would go to all the time. I don't know of any YM camps owned by the church. All the ones that I have been too are BSA owned.

Our Stake YW alternate between the Heber Girls Camp and Brighton Meadows camp. Both of which are paid for out of funds that local units never see.

[Green Monstah]

Several of the Stakes around here owned camps. The church took them over a few years ago. Layton has a nice one up in Uintas that is available to the general membership, if girls camps are not using it and you can get into it.

Last year we had the Ward campout up there and the Fathers and Sons outings have traditionally been held there.

I wish the Church would buy a camp up in Arkansas or somewhere reasonably close to Texas that cools down a bit (I think Arkansas has some mountains). Poor YW have to sleep in hot tents and spend their time in the muggy heat all day. I'd go crazy.

[Jacob]

So I learned on Sunday that, unlike in years past, our ward will not be paying the way for the leaders who attend high adventure camp. I am now being asked to pay $275 of my own money to take a week off from work and spend it in the mountains with a bunch of flatulent boys.

And just like that, I'm only available for the Thurs-Fri-Sat portion of camp.

That's really strange. The push now is to make sure everybody is reimbursed for everything, I thought.

My mother was recently told that relief society could no longer have pot-luck dinners because of the financial burden. Instead, she could buy all the food and get reimbursed. According to the handbook nazi, this was the only acceptable course of action.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Aside from funding and liability issues, I have also found that kids and parents just aren't interested in that kind of stuff much anymore. Last summer we planned a backpacking trip in Yellowstone, and I was surprised by the number of YM (and parents) that were generally apathetic to the whole idea.

The single most memorable trip I ever took as a scout was paddling canoes from Lewis Lake up to Shoshone Lake, which is the biggest lake in Jellystone that does not allow motors. While there we hiked and camped among the bear and moose for a week, and fished for our lunches and dinners. On the first day a young scout who wore headgear to support his orthodontic braces caught a ~11" mackinaw trout, "the biggest he ever saw". That fish turned out to be the smallest fish caught that week BY FAR (most were ~16-18" Browns, rainbows, cutts, and the largest was a 27" mac, and we saw a fisherman haul in a 37" mac).

It was wild and dangerous, though. One of the older scouts went out fishing alone early one morning, fell into the 48˚ water, where he remained until he was rescued over an hour later. He was a BIG guy and had plenty of insulation, which is the only reason he survived the cold. We were all preparing to go on a hike and assumed he was asleep in his tent. One leader and his son very faintly heard a voice calling through the mist from a mile away, went to investigate, and ended up saving his life. The story was written up as an article in the Ensign mag a few years later.

Anyway, I can see the reason to fear the liability as grounds to eliminate such high adventure trips. But you are completely correct in that kids and their parents just don't enjoy the outdoors the way we all used to do. I doubt we could even force the kids to abandon their electronic games/phones/iPods for a week without a mass revolt. So, instead, we always go to one of two camps the stakes in this region collectively own. We drive to the parking lot, then hike in ~150 ft to get to the campground. We clear out brush, pick up trash, sleep in bunks in the cabins (Long Houses), cook on propane griddles, shower in actual showers, and use bathrooms with actual toilets. The camp is VERY nice, but we have exceptional opportunities for camping in the state and national forests nearby in Olympics, Cascades, around Mt Ranier, on the islands, in the Puget Sound or Hood Canal, etc.

[BigFatMeanie]

That's really strange. The push now is to make sure everybody is reimbursed for everything, I thought.

My mother was recently told that relief society could no longer have pot-luck dinners because of the financial burden. Instead, she could buy all the food and get reimbursed. According to the handbook nazi, this was the only acceptable course of action.

That truly was a handbook nazi that made that decision. My reading of the CHOI doesn't lead me to come close to that conclusion.

[Donuthole]

Did they mention all the required training you are going to need yet? BSA Wilderness First Aid, for example, is about $200 alone. I am certified in most all the BSA stuff plus NRA rifles and shotguns, scuba, etc. In all, I have most likely spent $1,500 for training over my scouting tenure that I use primary for high adventures. Of course, I have made most of it back in camping equipment that some of the boys have left laying around and never claimed which I then rent back to them for a small fee.

It is a BSA sanctioned high adventure base (Beaver High Adventure Base, or B-hab as we referred to it as kids) so I was under the impression that we were only required to have our child protection training completed. If they want me to have more than that, i'll tell them to take a hike (literally, and without me).

[LA Ute]

Did they mention all the required training you are going to need yet? BSA Wilderness First Aid, for example, is about $200 alone. I am certified in most all the BSA stuff plus NRA rifles and shotguns, scuba, etc. In all, I have most likely spent $1,500 for training over my scouting tenure that I use primary for high adventures. Of course, I have made most of it back in camping equipment that some of the boys have left laying around and never claimed which I then rent back to them for a small fee.

You left out Wood Badge.

[Uncle Ted]

It is a BSA sanctioned high adventure base (Beaver High Adventure Base, or B-hab as we referred to it as kids) so I was under the impression that we were only required to have our child protection training completed. If they want me to have more than that, i'll tell them to take a hike (literally, and without me).

Yeah, if it is a BSA high adventure base then they most likely have someone with wilderness first aid training on hand. The BSA has been cracking down on LDS units with advisors that don't have the proper training. Our stake has said if someone doesn't have the training they need then they want them released. It seems the adults that don't really want to be in YMs are "forgetting" to get their training done. I don't really want to be a home teacher so I try to forget to do it now and then. That isn't getting me released, however.