Is service a sin?

[SeattleUte]

Is service a sin?

lol

[taekwondave]

The loaves and fishes passages springs quickly into this non-religious mind.

Lets all sing out praises to...
That long haired radical socialist Jew.

I've thought about this some more since I last responded to it. I don't think this would classify as a socialist act of giving any more than his miraculous healings could be.

When Jesus was involved in a healing, note that he never takes credit for it. He always made it very clear that it was the other person's faith that made them whole again. It seems to me that Jesus' words were a catalyst for the faith of those that he helped heal, but that the transaction stopped there. It was in fact the faith of those people that worked the miracle. I don't think Jesus was just trying to be modest by saying so. He seemed to enjoy teaching men to fish.

Now, with the fish and bread one might be tempted to think that it was different, but was it? Jesus prayed over the fish that his apostles had brought as food for themselves (it wasn't apparently Jesus' food to begin with) and then after his prayer/blessing, it seems to me that the faith of the multitude is what actually put food in their bellies, and again Jesus' "blessing" was just a catalyst for that faith.

It's not like Jesus treated everyone to fish and bread that day. He didn't call out for pizza, bust out his fat wallet and put a big charge on his credit card to feed everyone. He really might as well have said, "I know you're all hungry, but you may not have realized that at this moment we happen to be sitting in the middle of a wild corn field. All you see around you is already edible. Reach down and eat." He didn't GIVE them anything that he had in his possession. He merely helped open their eyes to what was already in THEIR possession.

[taekwondave]

Do you think maybe you felt the way you did b/c you just took the money of another unecessarily and God was trying to tell you to get an effing job?

If I were God, that's probably what I would be trying to communicate to you.

I've thought about that. I think the same could be said of ANYONE. EVERYONE has something they can offer in return for their daily bread. The trick is not to cheat people out of realizing that. THAT is charity to me.

[taekwondave]

lol

It says "yogi" under your name. Are you really into yoga? I am what you would call an inactive convert to yoga. I know it's true, but I don't attend very regularly

[taekwondave]

POST IT!

Oh man, do you know how LONG that is??? That's 120 posts. Many of which are up to 3 pages long (some aren't quite 1 page but I don't think it quite evens out).

[Chachi]

I didn't rad every post, but I think I got the jist of this thread. I am a young stay at home mom of 3 kids. I don't tend to walk alone, or with my children for that matter, in places where beggars lurk. In our small town, they usually sit at a busy traffic light to catch people leaving Walmart. FN gets frustrated with me if I give more than $1. I don't always give them money, however, I don't have time at an intersection to listen to a joke, or see if he can do something for me. I do not assume he can't do anything for me, but more that I just want to help without asking anything in return. Am I sinning because of that? No way. I want to help out, with the safety of my family first. I am most definitely not going to invite the guy over for dinner, or have him come home with me to pull weeds.

I do think your story is cool, but I guess I don't think that you can feel like any other homeless person begging for money. I mean, you chose to do what you did. Most people don't choose their homeless situations. Maybe that's why you felt she took something from you instead of giving. You chose to give up everything to travel. Homeless people (I assume) are begging for money just to stay alive, not to travel to Italy.

[taekwondave]

I
I do think your story is cool, but I guess I don't think that you can feel like any other homeless person begging for money. I mean, you chose to do what you did. Most people don't choose their homeless situations. Maybe that's why you felt she took something from you instead of giving. You chose to give up everything to travel. Homeless people (I assume) are begging for money just to stay alive, not to travel to Italy.

I think this is noble of you. This position is kind. I give you that. But I don't think you know many homeless people. From our lofty perches we can't fathom another human being actually CHOOSING to live that kind of life. It just makes no sense to us. I will tell you this: while on my trip I met more homeless people than I care to mention. They are a good source of information at times and other times they're just scary. One thing is oddly certain though: they LIKE living like that. It absolutely blew me away but I never met a single homeless person who was truly just down on his luck and just needed a little cash to get jumpstarted again. I never met one who was actually in need. It was part of the shock of my trip. A large percentage of the guys I met claimed to be "off the grid" and running from the law. That kind of shocked me. From our perspective that just doesn't make any sense.

Now, when you say, "Am I sinning in giving? No." Well, I agree. But I don't believe in sin. But you are contributing to the problem while telling yourself otherwise and where I wouldn't call that sin, I wouldn't call it kind either.

[taekwondave]

I
I do think your story is cool, but I guess I don't think that you can feel like any other homeless person begging for money. I mean, you chose to do what you did. Most people don't choose their homeless situations. Maybe that's why you felt she took something from you instead of giving. You chose to give up everything to travel. Homeless people (I assume) are begging for money just to stay alive, not to travel to Italy.

I think this is noble of you. This position is kind. I give you that. But I don't think you know many homeless people. From our lofty perches we can't fathom another human being actually CHOOSING to live that kind of life. It just makes no sense to us. I will tell you this: while on my trip I met more homeless people than I care to mention. They are a good source of information at times and other times they're just scary. One thing is oddly certain though: they LIKE living like that. It absolutely blew me away but I never met a single homeless person who was truly just down on his luck and just needed a little cash to get jumpstarted again. I never met one who was actually in need. It was part of the shock of my trip. A large percentage of the guys I met claimed to be "off the grid" and running from the law. That kind of shocked me. From our perspective that just doesn't make any sense.

Now, when you say, "Am I sinning in giving? No." Well, I agree. But I don't believe in sin. But you are contributing to the problem while telling yourself otherwise and where I wouldn't call that sin, I wouldn't call it kind either. Oh, I know your intentions are pure, but they do come from a place that is based on a whole lot of fantasy and that is what I hope this post can help correct, even if on a very minute scale.

I just don't think King Benjamin ever went out and chilled with the beggars. And his perch was pretty lofty.

[Mormon Red Death]

did you live the Hobo code?

[taekwondave]

Basically what I'm saying is this: The reason you give to beggars is because you want to help them. But the truth is that giving them food, clothing, or money DOESN'T help them. It cripples them. It makes their situation worse. It keeps the cycle going. If they couldn't survive begging they wouldn't beg. They'd find something to do to earn their daily bread. I find it best to believe in them enough not to give them a dime. This shows them respect. More respect than they are currently giving themselves. Not giving doesn't have to say, "You don't deserve this. You did this to yourself" like King Benjamin suggested, instead it can say, "No, sir. You are better than this and I will not play this game with you. You are my equal and if you want something from me you had better think of what you can give in return because you are just as capable as I am. Figure it out. You may not believe in you right now, but I do."

That, I believe, would be Jesus' attitude about it.

[Portland Ute]

I didn't rad every post, but I think I got the jist of this thread. I am a young stay at home mom of 3 kids. I don't tend to walk alone, or with my children for that matter, in places where beggars lurk. In our small town, they usually sit at a busy traffic light to catch people leaving Walmart. FN gets frustrated with me if I give more than $1. I don't always give them money, however, I don't have time at an intersection to listen to a joke, or see if he can do something for me. I do not assume he can't do anything for me, but more that I just want to help without asking anything in return. Am I sinning because of that? No way. I want to help out, with the safety of my family first. I am most definitely not going to invite the guy over for dinner, or have him come home with me to pull weeds.

I do think your story is cool, but I guess I don't think that you can feel like any other homeless person begging for money. I mean, you chose to do what you did. Most people don't choose their homeless situations. Maybe that's why you felt she took something from you instead of giving. You chose to give up everything to travel. Homeless people (I assume) are begging for money just to stay alive, not to travel to Italy.

However, this thread begs the question: If tkwhateverdave can get to Rome and back from L.A. without anything more than a dumb joke and changing sheets in a hostel, why couldn't a homeless person do the same exact thing?

It's a curious question. Seems that all that stands between a homeless person and a European vacation is a little creativity. Very little creativity.

[Portland Ute]

Basically what I'm saying is this: The reason you give to beggars is because you want to help them. But the truth is that giving them food, clothing, or money DOESN'T help them. It cripples them. It makes their situation worse. It keeps the cycle going. If they couldn't survive begging they wouldn't beg. They'd find something to do to earn their daily bread. I find it best to believe in them enough not to give them a dime. This shows them respect. More respect than they are currently giving themselves. Not giving doesn't have to say, "You don't deserve this. You did this to yourself" like King Benjamin suggested, instead it can say, "No, sir. You are better than this and I will not play this game with you. You are my equal and if you want something from me you had better think of what you can give in return because you are just as capable as I am. Figure it out. You may not believe in you right now, but I do."

That, I believe, would be Jesus' attitude about it.

Don't you think that some people are just beyond that? Or handicapped? Or mentally ill? Or to addicted?

Your view certainly is idealistic and I don't disagree with your ideal. However, we don't live in an ideal world. Too many people are, indeed, incapable.

[taekwondave]

Don't you think that some people are just beyond that? Or handicapped? Or mentally ill? Or to addicted?

Your view certainly is idealistic and I don't disagree with your ideal. However, we don't live in an ideal world. Too many people are, indeed, incapable.

I know handicapped people with jobs. I know mentally ill people with jobs. I know addicts with jobs. They all benefit from someone believing in them just like everyone else does. They receive just as much harm getting something for nothing as the rest of us. Everybody can do SOMETHING and get paid for it. And I tell you, the feeling of an honest transaction wherein both parties get something they need from each other...man that feels so different.

Now, I need to add, that part of what I see as the problem is the government and the socialist programs they already have all over that enable people, as well as directly harm people. So I understand that because of those factors it is HARDER for some people to find work. But I think I proved quite well with my trip that people will pay you to do just about anything if it proves to benefit them in any way. A joke for a buck? Make some beds? I also spent 98 cents for a spray can, 3 dollars for some stencils, made like a cub scout and knocked on doors asking if I could repaint numbers on their curbs (that's how I finally got out of phoenix). Made about $35/hour doing that little gig. Couldn't pull it off quite as well in Santa Fe, but I hopped a train to Albuquerque and found it worked just fine down there.

There's always SOMETHING if you believe in yourself. And if you come across someone who doesn't believe in himself, the best thing you can do for him is believe in him for him. No better way to lift another than to simply say, "No, man. You CAN do it."

[Sullyute]

It's a curious question. Seems that all that stands between a homeless person and a European vacation is a little creativity. Very little creativity.

And a passport.

[SeattleUte]

It says "yogi" under your name. Are you really into yoga? I am what you would call an inactive convert to yoga. I know it's true, but I don't attend very regularly

You could say that. I like the conditioning infused branch with no incense or nonsense. I try to go as often as I can. Fortunately, my wife recently became a professional instructor, in addition to a mother, a full time litigator and shareholder in a firm, etc. So I have an instructor in-house.