Is service a sin?

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  • taekwondave
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2011
    • 1160

    #1

    Is service a sin?

    I used to be a big proponent of giving to beggars. I read the King Benjamin chapters in Mosiah and was sold. For about five years following my mission I never turned a deaf ear to a beggar. And I wasn't cheap about it either. I got a kick out of seeing their eyes get bigger and bigger, relative to the size of the bill I handed them. I didn't think I was being self-sacrificing, I thought I was being self-saving. To me the scriptures made it abundantly clear that God took care of those who gave away their stuff for nothing in return.

    Well, a couple of years ago I took this trip (my mom called it a "walkabout" from the movie, "Australia"). I bought a bus ticket to Los Angeles with no extra money on me with the intention of picking up odd jobs and working my way across the country on the money I made with the eventual hope of reaching Rome, Italy. (I started at the USC Coliseum and wanted to end at the real Coliseum. It made sense to me at the time )

    Anyway I spent more than two weeks of this trip living basically like a homeless person in Phoenix. Up until this point I had made all of my money with this bit on the street: "Hey, excuse me. This is gonna sound really weird, but...if I tell you a joke...and it makes you laugh....could you spare a dollar?" Haha, I had the lamest jokes that I got off of the internet at a public library but it worked like magic, and it felt good to make people laugh. The joke seemed to be worth the dollar to them. It felt like an even transaction.

    Well, one day in Phoenix it was especially hot and I was trying to get back on the lightrail train to Tempe to use the showers at ASU and I just was NOT in the mood to tell any jokes. I don't know what it was but my energy was low and I was feeling a little shy for some reason. I only needed one more dollar to get on that train and so I walked up to the bus stop and asked the people there if any of them had any extra change on them. No big deal, right? I mean, I had given plenty of money to beggars over the last few years. Surely it was reasonable to ask for one measley dollar and God would provide a kind soul to help, right?

    Well, God DID provide. And as that sweet lady handed me those four quarters and we got on the bus I should have felt grateful and joyful. But I didn't. It was weird. Much to the contrary I actually felt like she TOOK something from me, rather than gave it. As we boarded the bus I took a seat in the back and just stared at the floor contemplating this horrible, unexpected feeling that had come over me. I didn't understand. Why would I feel this way? This lady had done something nice for me, hadn't she? Why did I feel so terrible? Why did I feel so ashamed and so pathetic?

    It was in that moment that I first questioned the true nature of what we call charity. When is charity not really charity? I've always been really against the idea of wealth sharing, inherent in socialism and similar systems, mostly because I was against giving someone money that another person didn't give out of the kindness fo their own heart. I had never considered that maybe even giving out of the kindness of your own heart was flawed somehow as well. How can something be charitable if it robs someone of their self respect? Just because it appears charitable on the outside, does that mean it passes the true test of charity?

    What I came to theorize was that when you give to someone who is "in need" without asking for anything in return, in the form of a product or service of SOME kind, you insinuate that you do not believe the other person has anything of value at their disposal. Such a view cannot be a godly one. And such an insinuation, it seems to me, does far more damage than what your sincere handout could remedy.

    I submit that any service that is not recompensed in some way by the person receiving the service, is not charity at all. And if I believed in sin, I would call it that. Since I do not, I will simply call it ignorance.
    Last edited by taekwondave; 04-27-2011, 10:06 AM.
  • Indy Coug
    Heartless Bastard
    • Dec 2008
    • 18747

    #2
    So what kind of side deals did Christ parlay out of his charitable wheelings and dealings?
    Everything in life is an approximation.

    http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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    • Blueintheface
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 15382

      #3
      If you could wear a siren around your neck so that I could hear you coming from 3 miles away I would appreciate it.

      (At which point I would run a 3.4 40 yd sprint the other direction)
      "Either evolution or intelligent design can account for the athlete, but neither can account for the sports fan." - Robert Brault

      "Once I seen the trades go down and the other guys signed elsewhere," he said, "I knew it was my time now." - Derrick Favors

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      • taekwondave
        Junior Member
        • Feb 2011
        • 1160

        #4
        Originally posted by Blueintheface View Post
        If you could wear a siren around your neck so that I could hear you coming from 3 miles away I would appreciate it.

        (At which point I would run a 3.4 40 yd sprint the other direction)
        Haha, I've thought of at least wearing a bell

        Comment

        • Pheidippides
          Liberal Feminazi
          • Nov 2008
          • 14759

          #5
          Originally posted by taekwondave View Post
          Haha, I've thought of at least wearing a bell
          We definitely don't need more cowbell round these parts.
          Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

          Comment

          • taekwondave
            Junior Member
            • Feb 2011
            • 1160

            #6
            Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
            So what kind of side deals did Christ parlay out of his charitable wheelings and dealings?
            Great question actually. I don't recall Christ giving out any money. I think all Christ did, if I remember correctly, was manifest confidence in the other person. Look at all of Christ's miracles: THAT was charity. THAT said, "You can do it. Your faith is great. It can make you whole." He said stuff like that over and over again, everywhere he went. That is a service that we can all do for one another free of charge. It's the opposite of giving money. It sends a completely different message. Don't confuse the charitable works of Christ with the charity of today. It was very different.

            Comment

            • Borderline Divine
              Junior Member
              • Jul 2010
              • 598

              #7
              The loaves and fishes passages springs quickly into this non-religious mind.

              Lets all sing out praises to...
              That long haired radical socialist Jew.
              The Holy War is over, and Utah won - Federal Ute

              Think of how stupid the average American is. Then remember that half are even dumber than that. - George Carlin

              Comment

              • taekwondave
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2011
                • 1160

                #8
                Originally posted by Borderline Divine View Post
                The loaves and fishes passages springs quickly into this non-religious mind.

                Lets all sing out praises to...
                That long haired radical socialist Jew.
                Yeah, that's a good point. Maybe that was one charitable mistake Jesus made. Or maybe the whole story of Jesus is mythical. Either way, I've seen modern day charity at work. I don't buy it.

                Comment

                • creekster
                  It is NOT a monkey!
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 22661

                  #9
                  I dont think that anyone reading the bible would conclude that charity (aka the pure love of Christ) means the same thing as charity in a modern sense of handing our food to the homeless.
                  PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                  Comment

                  • Sullyute
                    a day late/a dollar short
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 3308

                    #10
                    I actually like your posts, I may not agree with them but at least you bring a different perspective to the board.

                    So is the sin in the giver or the receiver of charity? The giver can receive many things in return for the charitable gift: a reprieve of being asked for money, a repreive of the smell of the unwashed person, to stave off the guilt she would have had if she didn't give, the warm fuzzy from giving to someone in need, to look good infront of those around her, a reward in the next life, etc. What she receives in return for giving depends on the intention/motivation of the gift in the first place.

                    There is a line of thought that there is no such thing as true altruism. That we always give with some reward in mind (see examples above).

                    But the bigger question is did you make it all the way to Rome? How far did you make it across the country? Are you writing a book about it?
                    "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

                    Comment

                    • jay santos
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 13652

                      #11
                      Cool story. Dumb point you're trying to make. Finish the story. Did you get to Italy?

                      Comment

                      • taekwondave
                        Junior Member
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 1160

                        #12
                        Originally posted by creekster View Post
                        I dont think that anyone reading the bible would conclude that charity (aka the pure love of Christ) means the same thing as charity in a modern sense of handing our food to the homeless.
                        Hm. I would. Not because I think the Bible appears to tout that, but because people like things to be simple. Charity means giving. I'm giving. I'm charitable. Boom. But if they really LOOKED at the Bible, I agree with you that I don't think they could conclude that. Hence my post.

                        Comment

                        • taekwondave
                          Junior Member
                          • Feb 2011
                          • 1160

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sullyute View Post
                          I actually like your posts, I may not agree with them but at least you bring a different perspective to the board.

                          So is the sin in the giver or the receiver of charity? The giver can receive many things in return for the charitable gift: a reprieve of being asked for money, a repreive of the smell of the unwashed person, to stave off the guilt she would have had if she didn't give, the warm fuzzy from giving to someone in need, to look good infront of those around her, a reward in the next life, etc. What she receives in return for giving depends on the intention/motivation of the gift in the first place.

                          There is a line of thought that there is no such thing as true altruism. That we always give with some reward in mind (see examples above).

                          But the bigger question is did you make it all the way to Rome? How far did you make it across the country? Are you writing a book about it?
                          I did make it all the way to Rome and was stuck there for two months making beds in a hostel till I could make enough money to buy a plane ticket home. And I kept a daily journal of everything that happened. The whole trip lasted four months. I've thought about making it into a book because I used to have it posted on Facebook (when I still had facebook) and I had quite a few people following the story and saying they were entertained by it but I don't have any idea where I would start if I DID want to publish it.

                          Comment

                          • Green Monstah
                            Royal Rooter
                            • Aug 2010
                            • 13945

                            #14
                            Well, God DID provide. And as that sweet lady handed me those four quarters and we got on the bus I should have felt grateful and joyful. But I didn't. It was weird. Much to the contrary I actually felt like she TOOK something from me, rather than gave it. As we boarded the bus I took a seat in the back and just stared at the floor contemplating this horrible, unexpected feeling that had come over me. I didn't understand. Why would I feel this way? This lady had done something nice for me, hadn't she? Why did I feel so terrible? Why did I feel so ashamed and so pathetic?
                            Do you think maybe you felt the way you did b/c you just took the money of another unecessarily and God was trying to tell you to get an effing job?

                            If I were God, that's probably what I would be trying to communicate to you.

                            Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                            "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                            Comment

                            • Green Monstah
                              Royal Rooter
                              • Aug 2010
                              • 13945

                              #15
                              Originally posted by taekwondave View Post
                              I did make it all the way to Rome and was stuck there for two months making beds in a hostel till I could make enough money to buy a plane ticket home. And I kept a daily journal of everything that happened. The whole trip lasted four months. I've thought about making it into a book because I used to have it posted on Facebook (when I still had facebook) and I had quite a few people following the story and saying they were entertained by it but I don't have any idea where I would start if I DID want to publish it.
                              POST IT!
                              Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                              "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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