mormonstories.org

[grapevine]

I don't know if they still do interviews or not. Some interesting ones. There is a video with Ed Kimball. Was disappointed he had to move when Dad was called apostle. Inside info on family. He has a full beard now too.

Grant Palmer had four podcasts. Listening to two of them. Was disfellowshipped for a book he wrote. Talks about the situation. Intersting says how we should worship in church. Talk about Jesus more. Maybe take sacrament last. Wants to tell church what to do after being disfellowshipped.

Some intersting interviews on there.

[Moliere]

Looks like John Dehlin finally went inactive* although he's been producing some pretty good (and apologetic) podcasts lately.


*in Mormon speak anyway

[ERCougar]

Looks like John Dehlin finally went inactive* although he's been producing some pretty good (and apologetic) podcasts lately.


*in Mormon speak anyway

This doesn't surprise me. John has some pretty unorthodox on things, at least based on the podcast he did on himself quite long time ago. I wondered at the time (and still wonder) how tenable his position of being "culturally" Mormon is. I feel somewhat there myself, although less fringe-y than he is (or was a few years ago), and honestly, I don't know how long church will work for me. Mormonism as preached at Church just isn't a religion of grays. I'm finding myself more and more often just wondering if the Church experience is really an edifying one and if there are much better uses of my "spiritual" time. Right now, I'm in the primary, which is probably the ideal place for me, but even with some of the stuff in there, I cringe a little. Is it worth all the cringing, the reworking in my head, and the damage control for my children? Why not just find a better fit? Right now, I'm ok with it...but I have no idea how long I'll feel this way.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Grant Palmer seems exactly correct. We SHOULD speak more of the Savior in our church meetings. My wife listens to the sermons on the local Christian channels throughout the day, and often remarks how uplifted she feels by the message of hope contained therein.

I sincerely appreciate when the instructor, or the speaker in Sac meetings, ties everything around the Savior.

[Moliere]

Grant Palmer seems exactly correct. We SHOULD speak more of the Savior in our church meetings. My wife listens to the sermons on the local Christian channels throughout the day, and often remarks how uplifted she feels by the message of hope contained therein.

I sincerely appreciate when the instructor, or the speaker in Sac meetings, ties everything around the Savior.

I may have shared this before but I can't remember and can't find it.

We once had a full investigator family show up to sacrament meeting. This is rare in my neck of the woods and this was a full on family including dad, mom, and probably 5 kids. Guess what the sacrament topic was for that day: Joseph Smith and the restoration.

We started the meeting with "Joseph Smith's First Prayer", had the sacrament with a normal sacrament song. Then the first talk was solely on Joseph Smith. The rest hymn was "Praise to the Man" and we all stood and sang it with quite fervor. The final talk was on the restoration and was pretty good but there was little mention of Christ. The concluding song was "We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet".

And we wonder why people think we worship Joseph Smith

[Viking]

This doesn't surprise me. John has some pretty unorthodox on things, at least based on the podcast he did on himself quite long time ago. I wondered at the time (and still wonder) how tenable his position of being "culturally" Mormon is. I feel somewhat there myself, although less fringe-y than he is (or was a few years ago), and honestly, I don't know how long church will work for me. Mormonism as preached at Church just isn't a religion of grays. I'm finding myself more and more often just wondering if the Church experience is really an edifying one and if there are much better uses of my "spiritual" time. Right now, I'm in the primary, which is probably the ideal place for me, but even with some of the stuff in there, I cringe a little. Is it worth all the cringing, the reworking in my head, and the damage control for my children? Why not just find a better fit? Right now, I'm ok with it...but I have no idea how long I'll feel this way.

i gotta tell you, your post really hits home and makes me sad. As a full-on apostate, it might be assumed that my attitude would be to be glad and morally encouraged as more join my ranks but the opposite is true.

It truly saddens me to see people go through the unnecessary phase of white into gray and wonder how they can possibly remain mormon? It's sad. The "in or out" nature of the church is moronic.

[Indy Coug]

i gotta tell you, your post really hits home and makes me sad. As a full-on apostate, it might be assumed that my attitude would be to be glad and morally encouraged as more join my ranks but the opposite is true.

It truly saddens me to see people go through the unnecessary phase of white into gray and wonder how they can possibly remain mormon? It's sad. The "in or out" nature of the church is moronic.

It seems odd that you're bemoaning the "in or out" nature of the church with anecdotes of self-selection.

[jay santos]

It seems odd that you're bemoaning the "in or out" nature of the church with anecdotes of self-selection.

Indy, I missed ya. Where you been?

[ERCougar]

Sorry...I didn't mean to turn the focus onto my views or a criticism of the church. I'm just saying that I can see the difficulty of remaining active in a church not conducive to holding individual views different from the mainstream, and John is further out there than I am.

[ERCougar]

It seems odd that you're bemoaning the "in or out" nature of the church with anecdotes of self-selection.

I guess it's self-selection, but when you continually hear derisive comments towards 'cafeteria mormonism' (yet again at conference this year), you start to wonder if you really belong--if as John puts it frequently, these people really are your people, if they really what you as part of their tribe. Maybe everyone would just be happier to see you move on to a better fit?

I think that the work that John does must be mentally exhausting.

[CardiacCoug]

I guess it's self-selection, but when you continually hear derisive comments towards 'cafeteria mormonism' (yet again at conference this year), you start to wonder if you really belong--if as John puts it frequently, these people really are your people, if they really what you as part of their tribe. Maybe everyone would just be happier to see you move on to a better fit?

I think that the work that John does must be mentally exhausting.

I think it's mentally exhausting if you are always trying to decide where you fit in and are constantly defining yourself by your lack of a "normal" testimony.

If you just go with the attitude that it's a chance to learn and teach principals of Christian living and strengthen your family then I think it can work. If there is a problem with Dehlin's approach (and Jeff Burton with the Borderlands stuff) I think it's the fact that they encourage people to embrace that Borderland/non-believing status and Jeff Burton sort of thinks you should even openly advertise that status.

There is nothing that seems to me that it would make Church more uncomfortable than being defined as "that guy" who is a skeptic/non-believer/thinks he's smarter and more enlightened than everyone else.

I'm trying to go with the attitude that EVERY Mormon doubts part or most of the dogma (whether they will admit it even to themselves) and really we're all in the same boat.

[WashingtonCoug]

I guess it's self-selection, but when you continually hear derisive comments towards 'cafeteria mormonism' (yet again at conference this year), you start to wonder if you really belong--if as John puts it frequently, these people really are your people, if they really what you as part of their tribe. Maybe everyone would just be happier to see you move on to a better fit?

I think that the work that John does must be mentally exhausting.

I certainly hope nobody is wanting you to move on because you have issues with certain aspects of the Gospel. Isn't that why we go to church? Don't we go to uplift each other with our faith. Some have the gift of faith and find it easy to believe. With others it is much tougher. Nobody has all the answers. Even the prophet doesn't have all the answers. I don't think we should be striving to gain faith in all aspects of the church, but nobody should judge your faith, ever. When I hear council from conference about taking the church as a whole, I take that as a challenge that I can obtain someday. If I don't make it, I hope by the grace of God he can forgive me for my many shortcomings.

[ERCougar]

I still can't figure out how to scroll within a reply window, so il have to answer this way...
Cardiac-interesting approach. I have to think about this some more. It's hard to break the habit of figuring out how one fits, and begs the question of why we attend church at all if not for reflection. But I'll think a bit more on this.
Washington-i appreciate the concern, but my issues are a bit different. Im not struggling too reach the place of 100% acceptance. I think there are singe things that are just plain wrong.

[Viking]

It seems odd that you're bemoaning the "in or out" nature of the church with anecdotes of self-selection.

How predictable of you indy...

[Viking]

Indy, I missed ya. Where you been?

In his lair: cougarboard