mormonstories.org

[TripletDaddy]

I still can't figure out how to scroll within a reply window, so il have to answer this way...
Cardiac-interesting approach. I have to think about this some more. It's hard to break the habit of figuring out how one fits, and begs the question of why we attend church at all if not for reflection. But I'll think a bit more on this.
Washington-i appreciate the concern, but my issues are a bit different. Im not struggling too reach the place of 100% acceptance. I think there are singe things that are just plain wrong.

Ha. That took me awhile to figure out, too. Use two fingers to scroll in a frame within a frame. That day was a great day for me!

Also, you probably already know, but when browsing the web, you can scroll to the top of a page instantly by touching the top of the browser pane, in the general area of where you enter URLs and such. Don't touch those windows, but the silver area around it.

[WashingtonCoug]

I still can't figure out how to scroll within a reply window, so il have to answer this way...
Cardiac-interesting approach. I have to think about this some more. It's hard to break the habit of figuring out how one fits, and begs the question of why we attend church at all if not for reflection. But I'll think a bit more on this.
Washington-i appreciate the concern, but my issues are a bit different. Im not struggling too reach the place of 100% acceptance. I think there are singe things that are just plain wrong.

No problem. I still think anybody that judges you for any unbelief, unless you are openly preaching in church, needs to look at themselves. We all have doubts and concerns to varying degrees. It's just a matter of whether your faith outweighs your doubt.

[WashingtonCoug]

Ha. That took me awhile to figure out, too. Use two fingers to scroll in a frame within a frame. That day was a great day for me!

Also, you probably already know, but when browsing the web, you can scroll to the top of a page instantly by touching the top of the browser pane, in the general area of where you enter URLs and such. Don't touch those windows, but the silver area around it.

Two fingers!!!! You just made my day.

[ERCougar]

Ha. That took me awhile to figure out, too. Use two fingers to scroll in a frame within a frame. That day was a great day for me!

Also, you probably already know, but when browsing the web, you can scroll to the top of a page instantly by touching the top of the browser pane, in the general area of where you enter URLs and such. Don't touch those windows, but the silver area around it.

Yes!

THIS is why I love the foyer.

[Indy Coug]

In his lair: cougarboard

Hardly. I've self-selected not to participate with either board.

[TripletDaddy]

Two fingers!!!! You just made my day.

:condom:

[grapevine]

I may have shared this before but I can't remember and can't find it.

We once had a full investigator family show up to sacrament meeting. This is rare in my neck of the woods and this was a full on family including dad, mom, and probably 5 kids. Guess what the sacrament topic was for that day: Joseph Smith and the restoration.

We started the meeting with "Joseph Smith's First Prayer", had the sacrament with a normal sacrament song. Then the first talk was solely on Joseph Smith. The rest hymn was "Praise to the Man" and we all stood and sang it with quite fervor. The final talk was on the restoration and was pretty good but there was little mention of Christ. The concluding song was "We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet".

And we wonder why people think we worship Joseph Smith

Those hymns tell us that Jesus gives us prophets in our day. That he did speak to Joseph Smith. Communed with Jehovah, Two Heavenly Beings God the FAthe and the Son and he called a prophet. To testify of Joseph Smith is to testify of Jesus Christ. Since Christ called him.

The story of David O McKays father who decided not to testify of Joseph because it caused antagonism then got a dark feeling. Was told Testify of Joseph and dark spirit went away. I saw that in several places. Including DOM manuel.

Thing is without Joseph SMith we would have no religion. Palmer on the podcasts thought we talked of him too much. Why doesn't he join a Protestant church than? Came close to saying he might. Wrote to Trib a few years ago saying Jesus don't care were we go to church. Foreign to LDS peoples thinking. After criticizing those Jesus called to open this dispensation.

Another interesting thing he mentioned 52 Sundays a year. Forgot to mention Stake and General Conference and testimony meetings. 36 Sundays a year speakers are invited. And told to give topics that obviously came from Jesus to his servants such as the Sabbath, Tithing, The Word of Wisdom etc. Not just Jesus loves us nothing else. Reason the SS and Priesthood manuels and Sacrament Meetings are assigned topics.

[Rosebud]

You, the Church, and Mormon Stories

May 3, 2011

By John Dehlin

I have the opportunity to meet with a church leader Thursday night. I would love to gather as much information as I can from you about:

Your situation/thoughts/feelings with regard to the church.
What you feel you are needing/lacking that the church has not yet been able to provide.
How Mormon Stories has helped in that journey (if it has).
Also, please direct your comments (if you can) to your own situation/thoughts/feelings/needs regarding the church…vs. on compliments (or criticisms) to any one person involved in Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, etc.

My hope is that this information will adequately convey what needs are “out there” within the church, and what we’re trying to do to support those needs.

Finally, please keep this as constructive as you can, so that it will be heard…and prove useful.

Thanks in advance.

John Dehlin

Please post to the blog if you can. Thanks, RB.

[marsupial]

I think it's mentally exhausting if you are always trying to decide where you fit in and are constantly defining yourself by your lack of a "normal" testimony.

If you just go with the attitude that it's a chance to learn and teach principals of Christian living and strengthen your family then I think it can work. If there is a problem with Dehlin's approach (and Jeff Burton with the Borderlands stuff) I think it's the fact that they encourage people to embrace that Borderland/non-believing status and Jeff Burton sort of thinks you should even openly advertise that status.

There is nothing that seems to me that it would make Church more uncomfortable than being defined as "that guy" who is a skeptic/non-believer/thinks he's smarter and more enlightened than everyone else.

I'm trying to go with the attitude that EVERY Mormon doubts part or most of the dogma (whether they will admit it even to themselves) and really we're all in the same boat.

While I like this attitude, I think the hardest part for me is that since I have decided I don't believe the church is true, I don't feel like going through some of the motions (i.e. garments) that I find pointless or silly. By not going through these motions, you can't participate fully in the church and therefore are relegated to the fringe, even if you are not openly discussing your doubts with other ward members.

I still love the church and Mormons and don't want to leave, but it feels like I am eventually going to have to decide--all or nothing--when really I just want to enjoy my associations with the ward, take from church what resonates, contribute what I can, and leave behind what I dislike.

[Green Monstah]

This doesn't surprise me. John has some pretty unorthodox on things, at least based on the podcast he did on himself quite long time ago. I wondered at the time (and still wonder) how tenable his position of being "culturally" Mormon is. I feel somewhat there myself, although less fringe-y than he is (or was a few years ago), and honestly, I don't know how long church will work for me. Mormonism as preached at Church just isn't a religion of grays. I'm finding myself more and more often just wondering if the Church experience is really an edifying one and if there are much better uses of my "spiritual" time. Right now, I'm in the primary, which is probably the ideal place for me, but even with some of the stuff in there, I cringe a little. Is it worth all the cringing, the reworking in my head, and the damage control for my children? Why not just find a better fit? Right now, I'm ok with it...but I have no idea how long I'll feel this way.

OOC, where did he say that he is no longer actively participating in Church?

Update: nevermind, I found it.

That's too bad. He started his entire crusade encouraging people on how to stay involved without being orthodox. Inevitable, I suppose?

[snowcat]

You, the Church, and Mormon Stories



Please post to the blog if you can. Thanks, RB.

Looking at the comments to the blog, I find that I have a hard time relating to the feelings described, even though I am a less than fully orthodox member.

I guess I don't find that what I consider to be mistakes in church history to be a stumbling block to believing in the Gospel. The church is led by humans. I would expect mistakes. I would expect people to defend their own mistakes as if everything was fine. This just seems like human nature to me. Over time mistakes are generally corrected. Sometimes it takes a while because we don't like to admit to anything wrong (again human nature).

I suppose among outsiders I am an outsider.

[Moliere]

You, the Church, and Mormon Stories

May 3, 2011

By John Dehlin

I have the opportunity to meet with a church leader Thursday night. I would love to gather as much information as I can from you about:

Your situation/thoughts/feelings with regard to the church.
What you feel you are needing/lacking that the church has not yet been able to provide.
How Mormon Stories has helped in that journey (if it has).
Also, please direct your comments (if you can) to your own situation/thoughts/feelings/needs regarding the church…vs. on compliments (or criticisms) to any one person involved in Mormon Stories, Mormon Matters, etc.

My hope is that this information will adequately convey what needs are “out there” within the church, and what we’re trying to do to support those needs.

Finally, please keep this as constructive as you can, so that it will be heard…and prove useful.

Thanks in advance.

John Dehlin

Please post to the blog if you can. Thanks, RB.

Is the hammer about to drop?

[pellegrino]

Looking at the comments to the blog, I find that I have a hard time relating to the feelings described, even though I am a less than fully orthodox member.

I guess I don't find that what I consider to be mistakes in church history to be a stumbling block to believing in the Gospel. The church is led by humans. I would expect mistakes. I would expect people to defend their own mistakes as if everything was fine. This just seems like human nature to me. Over time mistakes are generally corrected. Sometimes it takes a while because we don't like to admit to anything wrong (again human nature).

I suppose among outsiders I am an outsider.

[YOUTUBE]E37CSpiRc6Y[/YOUTUBE]

[Sullyute]

You, the Church, and Mormon Stories

Please post to the blog if you can. Thanks, RB.

There are alot of great posts on the blog. Here is one of my favorites from a purported bishop:

I am currently serving as a bishop in my ward. I do not want to draw attention to my ward or family at this time but I would like to say that I am extremely grateful for what John Dehlin has done. It took remarkable courage for him to create Mormon Stories and I for one know it has made me a better bishop and a better disciple of Jesus Christ. I now know why a lot of people are leaving the church. I committed sin in believing the myth that there was some type of problem with them. I have repented of that sin. There are very legitimate concerns and questions that faithful members have. Some of them are being mistreated as a result of those concerns. We are bearing false witness when we accuse our brothers and sisters of sin, or wanting to sin, or being offended. We can do better. We need to raise the bar on compassion, love, acceptance, tolerance and mercy. We need to be more concerned with the weightier things of the kingdom, as Jesus taught than outward appearances and "tithing our mint and cummin". We need to decide if we will be a restoration of the Old Testament or New Testament. We need to decide if we will truly take upon ourselves the name of Christ or if we will be Levites who walk on the other side of the road while our brothers and sisters lay half-dead. We need to stop saying: It is their own fault. They were offended. They have underlying sin or want to sin. It is not acceptable. John had the courage to stand up in a very positive, and dare I say miraculous way, and Christ-like way, and left the 99 and went after the 1. I respect him and salute him and Mormon Stories.

[Rosebud]

John and Mormon Stories will be in Southern California this coming Friday and Saturday if any of you who live out that way are interested.

There'll be a Friday night social and then a Saturday afternoon conference. John, Kendall Wilcox, Laura Compton and others will be speaking.