My investigator friend

[dabrockster]

What you are doing is ensuring this mans testimony will be strong and true well beyond the normal aspects of a investigator.. I say kudos to you for doing it, and kudos to him for seeking truth so soundly..

I think what you are doing is ensuring his testimony is strong if he chooses to join... This guy will be a rock imo..

Kudos to you and I enjoy it. I wish I had an investigator that was that strong in seeking out the truth in the gospel..

[The_Tick]

Good on ya Niku. Keep up the good work.

On the topic of leadership knowing...very slippery slope.

You know my history and an experience that happened to me earlier this year. Anyways...I am in the EQP in our ward and last week we reorganized all of our home teaching.

I have a great friend that recently moved back into the ward. When he was here last time he was fully active. Coming back this time, he is a non-believer and has turned in his TR. He comes to sac. meeting for his wife and kids. Real hard on their marraige. But he was open with the Bishop and he knows where my buddy stands. My buddy requested that I be his HT because he knows that I know, and his wife is comfortable with me.

When we were changing the routes the EQP says "Bro. Tick, I know that he requested you to be his HT, but because of his situation and your situation, the Bishop has told me that you aren't to be his HT."

I am bummed about it. I am bummed because my friend requested it and he was denied. I am also bummed because it appears my visit with the Bishop has been shared with the EQP.

I will be setting up a visit with the Bishop again shortly letting him know that unless I kill someone, I wont be in to chat with him anytime soon.

[thesaint258]

Good on ya Niku. Keep up the good work.

On the topic of leadership knowing...very slippery slope.

You know my history and an experience that happened to me earlier this year. Anyways...I am in the EQP in our ward and last week we reorganized all of our home teaching.

I have a great friend that recently moved back into the ward. When he was here last time he was fully active. Coming back this time, he is a non-believer and has turned in his TR. He comes to sac. meeting for his wife and kids. Real hard on their marraige. But he was open with the Bishop and he knows where my buddy stands. My buddy requested that I be his HT because he knows that I know, and his wife is comfortable with me.

When we were changing the routes the EQP says "Bro. Tick, I know that he requested you to be his HT, but because of his situation and your situation, the Bishop has told me that you aren't to be his HT."

I am bummed about it. I am bummed because my friend requested it and he was denied. I am also bummed because it appears my visit with the Bishop has been shared with the EQP.

I will be setting up a visit with the Bishop again shortly letting him know that unless I kill someone, I wont be in to chat with him anytime soon.

I could be wrong, but isn't the EQP technically under the Stake President, so the Bishop doesn't get to mandate things to the EQP?

[Pheidippides]

I could be wrong, but isn't the EQP technically under the Stake President, so the Bishop doesn't get to mandate things to the EQP?

Bishops have veto authority over home teaching routes.

[thesaint258]

Bishops have veto authority over home teaching routes.

That's unfortunate. Tick, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't talk to your bishop anymore either. If it helps, when I was a kid, we had an awful bishop. I won't go into details here, but the guy severely overstepped his bounds several times. My parents even went to the SP to complain about some of the things (my parents aren't the complaining type), and the SP overruled the bishop. My mom especially quit interacting with him completely, but fortunately, bishops change. Hopefully your next bishop (whenever that happens) will be better for you.

[NorthwestUteFan]

I really don't want to take this thread off topic as it has been beyond excellent for me to read. Thanks for the updates Niku.

I will be brief:
As stated, the bishop gives the go/no go on the HT routes. The EQP IS technically under the SP, but the bishop still carries most of the responsibility for the members of his ward.

I can see, somewhat, the bishop's point in The Tick's situation. However it is a dangerous game to play. Tick's good friend may very likely stop coming to church over this one.

I will go completely counter to thesaint258's recommendation and back up Tick. Don't simply avoid the bishop. Go lay it out for the bishop. There is a good chance he doesn't know the entire situation, and if he is reasonable, he will reverse course. Wishful thinking, I know.

If not, there is no reason Tick can't be an 'unofficial Home Teacher'. Bring the wife and kids, or invite Friend/Mrs. Friend/the young'ns over, make a family party out of it. He may very well stall, avoid, and otherwise foil the new HT's ('assigned' friend's) attempt to visit monthly.

[The_Tick]

I really don't want to take this thread off topic as it has been beyond excellent for me to read. Thanks for the updates Niku.

I will be brief:
As stated, the bishop gives the go/no go on the HT routes. The EQP IS technically under the SP, but the bishop still carries most of the responsibility for the members of his ward.

I can see, somewhat, the bishop's point in The Tick's situation. However it is a dangerous game to play. Tick's good friend may very likely stop coming to church over this one.

I will go completely counter to thesaint258's recommendation and back up Tick. Don't simply avoid the bishop. Go lay it out for the bishop. There is a good chance he doesn't know the entire situation, and if he is reasonable, he will reverse course. Wishful thinking, I know.

If not, there is no reason Tick can't be an 'unofficial Home Teacher'. Bring the wife and kids, or invite Friend/Mrs. Friend/the young'ns over, make a family party out of it. He may very well stall, avoid, and otherwise foil the new HT's ('assigned' friend's) attempt to visit monthly.

Oh I am still going to unofficially HT the family. I am the one they call when they need blessings. They live one street over. This isn't Utah...so that is super close.

I still go every week...just because there are some things I don't agree with doesn't make me any worse than anyone else. That is what frustrates me. Being honest made things worse, not better.

[Pheidippides]

Oh I am still going to unofficially HT the family. I am the one they call when they need blessings. They live one street over. This isn't Utah...so that is super close.

I still go every week...just because there are some things I don't agree with doesn't make me any worse than anyone else. That is what frustrates me. Being honest made things worse, not better.

I know what you mean. I haven't had the guts to be honest with anybody outside of CUF, my wife, and my investigator friend. One friend of mine, formerly of the bishopric and now on the High Council (also a friend of the investigator friend, btw, although not as close as I am) also has minor inklings.

I am hopeful that the church is changing. What I hear in General Conference is encouraging and represents a new direction. What I see in practice is Bensonian.

[SoonerCoug]

One of my favorite investigators on my mission was a tuberculosis-infected, destitute alcoholic who read the BOM within a few days and then stumbled over to me on the street one day to tell me that the story about God telling Nephi to kill Laban was a load of crap. Much to my companion's dismay, I told the drunk that he had a good point. The investigator died of tuberculosis about a month later.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Niku, I may be missing something, but I don't see why your role here should get you in hot water. Your friend is asking you questions and you are giving honest answers, yet trying to stay positive about the church. That is a perfectly defensible position. I am with dabrockster on this one. If this guy joins with his eyes wide open, he will be a much stronger member.

[Pheidippides]

Niku, I may be missing something, but I don't see why your role here should get you in hot water. Your friend is asking you questions and you are giving honest answers, yet trying to stay positive about the church. That is a perfectly defensible position. I am with dabrockster on this one. If this guy joins with his eyes wide open, he will be a much stronger member.

I don't see why it should either. I'm just anticipating the worst. The leaders here are not bad people but they are not exactly well educated as to our history either and I can see the potential backlash. I don't expect it, just anticipating the possibility.

On a continuing note, we had lunch today (as we often do) and he had a question he had wanted to ask for years but had not dared. But since I was always honest he was sure he'd get the real answer and not get offended. Apparently he had heard that we had this practice where we took young girls and made them wear nothing but a sheet, anointed them with oil, and then had this thing called a laying on of hands where the elders of the church then got to grope said girl in the name of religion.

I'm glad I have the relationship with him that he'll ask. I dispelled that particular myth quickly, and then we proceeds to talk about temple worship.

[Viking]

Niku, I may be missing something, but I don't see why your role here should get you in hot water. Your friend is asking you questions and you are giving honest answers, yet trying to stay positive about the church. That is a perfectly defensible position. I am with dabrockster on this one. If this guy joins with his eyes wide open, he will be a much stronger member.

Look, my falling away was first a dynamic of: "wait a minute...what??!!" (as i learned not everything was "oh, how lovely was the morning"), and later, the "this is nonsense".

I might have still arrived at the the "nonsense" conclusion but the feeling that the church was dishonest would have been absent.

[Pheidippides]

Look, my falling away was first a dynamic of: "wait a minute...what??!!" (as i learned not everything was "oh, how lovely was the morning"), and later, the "this is nonsense".

I might have still arrived at the the "nonsense" conclusion but the feeling that the church was dishonest would have been absent.

I very much appreciate this response as it touches on my own struggles. I've decided to stay in, of course, and I'm not wholly devoid of faith or what I believe to be spiritual experiences. And I'm happy and at peace with that. But I'm not sure I'll trust the church again. Or at least I won't trust them any more than, say, the 10k of a random corporation.

Actually, I'd trust the 10k more because there's at least a clear set of rules and principles to be followed for those in terms of disclosure.

[Viking]

I very much appreciate this response as it touches on my own struggles. I've decided to stay in, of course, and I'm not wholly devoid of faith or what I believe to be spiritual experiences. And I'm happy and at peace with that. But I'm not sure I'll trust the church again. Or at least I won't trust them any more than, say, the 10k of a random corporation.

Actually, I'd trust the 10k more because there's at least a clear set of rules and principles to be followed for those in terms of disclosure.

I wish it wasnt the case. I have fond memories of growing up mormon

[Donuthole]

I very much appreciate this response as it touches on my own struggles. I've decided to stay in, of course, and I'm not wholly devoid of faith or what I believe to be spiritual experiences. And I'm happy and at peace with that. But I'm not sure I'll trust the church again. Or at least I won't trust them any more than, say, the 10k of a random corporation.

Actually, I'd trust the 10k more because there's at least a clear set of rules and principles to be followed for those in terms of disclosure.

You'll trust them with more than 10k of your own money every year.