Repentance and confession - What would you do?

[KillerDog]

exactly. i love the examples of "hey, i know someone that admitted it and the wife got really mad!" As if anyone is arguing that the wife would be stoked to hear that kind of news.

I think there is a tendency amongst justice-centered people to ignore effects as being "natural outgrowths of the bad act." For example, he committed adultery and told his wife and his wife left him. The adultery did not make the wife leave, finding out about the adultery made the wife leave. I think it is paramount for religious leaders to determine whether a relationship can be better salvaged through silence or confession. Most people who are justice oriented think it is paramount for a religious leader to facilitate the maximum negative effect of the sinful life.

I recall the savior requiring sinners to go and sin no more. I don't recall the savior throwing the first stone because being stoned was a natural outgrowth of adultery.

[FN Phat]

"Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that
faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."
— President Abraham Lincoln

[SeattleUte]

Do you have something to contribute in this thread? In my estimation I thought you would. I guess the compulsion to deride the church is too great.

Thank you for the compliment. I'd rather be crazy than ignorant and bitter.

Wouldn't it be awful to feel like you had to confess something private to your bishop, who was tooblue. I udnerstand he has been in the bishopric. I bet there are some bishops like him.

[RobinFinderson]

lol.

It isn't a contradiction. Good communication means making your needs, feelings, and expectations known.

[tooblue]

Because they want to control you.

Who's 'they'? And this response is indicative of the maturity ... you sound like my 14 year old!

[TripletDaddy]

And I know a guy who was guilty of the same thing and through hard work the two were able to salvage their marriage.

exactly. i love the examples of "hey, i know someone that admitted it and the wife got really mad!" As if anyone is arguing that the wife would be stoked to hear that kind of news.

[KillerDog]

And I know a guy who was guilty of the same thing and through hard work the two were able to salvage their marriage.

Excellent point. The net out of all this is that a blanket requirement to confess is not the best way to go. I've noticed that this type of interaction is done at the Bishop level. A good Bishop should find out about the parties involved and try to determine what the best way to salvage the marriage is. If he has not done that but has instead relied on what would work best in his own marriage, bad results can happen.

[TripletDaddy]

I have two problems with this. First, your one size fits all approach. Maybe inflexible is a better approach than extreme. Second, your admitted lack of experience in addressing infinitely complicted situations such as these.

This is silly. There are two options to this hypo...tell your wife, don't tell your wife. The "tell your wife" option is no more a one-size fits all than the "don't tell your wife."

There are likely lots of stories of men that admitted their affairs to the wife and the wife was able to forgive and move forward. People can recover from this tragedy. So to encourage someone to continue lying about it is no more universally applicable than to encourage someone to admit it.

In some cases, telling the wife will prove to basically destroy the relationship. I never denied this. But that is the reality when you commit adultery. My basic premise is fairly sound. Honesty and natural consequences, albeit unpleasant ones. The other premise is "cover up one lie with another." Again, that approach is foreign to me.

Your second point is equally as silly. A strawman. I have never dealt with adultery in my marriage. To whit, we have lots of participants in this thread. To be consistent, unless the other posters, including you, have dealt with adultery within their marriage, then their takes are equally troublesome to you?

The interesting thing about that is that you call me out for a one-size fits all approach, then criticize my opinion because it differs from yours. I guess your opinion on this matter is the true universal approach?

[tooblue]

Again, you are talking crazy.

Do you have something to contribute in this thread? In my estimation I thought you would. I guess the compulsion to deride the church is too great.

Thank you for the compliment. I'd rather be crazy than ignorant and bitter.

[Surfah]

I know a guy who had an "affair." It wasn't an affair in the traditional sense, it never progressed beyond kissing and a little light petting, but the guy was going to leave his wife to be with this woman and sue for full custody of his young children. At the last second, he decided against it, broke off the illicit relationship and tried to make it work with his wife.

Years later, after having been a Bishop, he confessed the sin to his priesthood file leader in hopes of some absolution. He was told that it wasn't a problem but he should probably tell his wife. This guy thought that was bad advice but went with the counsel of his priesthood leader. The marriage never recovered.

His wife could not forgive the minor indiscretion. She could not let the indiscretion go and, over time, pushed her husband away completely. He continually tried to make it work; I believe she tried to make it work too. But her nature wouldn't allow forgiveness. They grew further apart, started living in separate places and eventually he did commit a more traditional form of adultery.

The second incident caused additional problems and a Disciplinary Counsel convened. He was not excommunicated and his spouse was livid. She wanted him exed. She concocted elaborate conspiracies that had prevented him from being justly punished. They didn't divorce (they were kinda weird about divorce) but they also didn't live in the same place or speak to each other for many years. Finally, the wife filled out and filed a divorce petition. One week before the judge was to sign the divorce petition, the guy died. The only person in the hospital room with him was his estranged wife who was in the process of divorcing him...he still wanted to make it work.

Should he have told?

And I know a guy who was guilty of the same thing and through hard work the two were able to salvage their marriage.

[SeattleUte]

Ah, the old "I'm older and wiser" approach. Well, here you go, old man....a summary of my firebrand positions...

1. Adultery is a horrible situation for all involved
2. If a husband cheats on his wife, he should be honest with her and tell her
3. Within the LDS culture, we confess our sins to our priesthood leaders. Adultery is considered to be one of the most grievous sins.
4. Rationalizing a refusal to admit the affair 10 years later has practical benefits, to be sure. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. But it is still a lie. I expect more out of my relationship with my wife than to live a huge lie. I hope my wife expects the same from me.
5. It is hard to believe a guy that has cheated on his wife and ran and hid from his Bishop, waits 10 years, still feels guilty about it but refrains from telling his wife....is now motivated out of love and concern for his wife, as opposed to CYA now that he has even more to lose. I am sure he is motivated by both, but the fact that he is motivated at all by CYA shows that his selfish ways have not really changed all that much.
6. If a guy that has cheated goes to his Bishop and the Bishop says, "go and sin no more," then cool. No worries. I have no vested interest in seeing folks burned at the stake.

If these positions are radical, extreme, or whatnot, then so be it.

Equal rights for gays isn't a good analogy. I suppose that is payback for my prior poor analogy.

I have two problems with this. First, your one size fits all approach. Maybe inflexible is a better word for it than extreme. Second, your admitted lack of experience in addressing infinitely complicted situations such as these.

[TripletDaddy]

I know a guy who had an "affair." It wasn't an affair in the traditional sense, it never progressed beyond kissing and a little light petting, but the guy was going to leave his wife to be with this woman and sue for full custody of his young children. At the last second, he decided against it, broke off the illicit relationship and tried to make it work with his wife.

Years later, after having been a Bishop, he confessed the sin to his priesthood file leader in hopes of some absolution. He was told that it wasn't a problem but he should probably tell his wife. This guy thought that was bad advice but went with the counsel of his priesthood leader. The marriage never recovered.

His wife could not forgive the minor indiscretion. She could not let the indiscretion go and, over time, pushed her husband away completely. He continually tried to make it work; I believe she tried to make it work too. But her nature wouldn't allow forgiveness. They grew further apart, started living in separate places and eventually he did commit a more traditional form of adultery.

The second incident caused additional problems and a Disciplinary Counsel convened. He was not excommunicated and his spouse was livid. She wanted him exed. She concocted elaborate conspiracies that had prevented him from being justly punished. They didn't divorce (they were kinda weird about divorce) but they also didn't live in the same place or speak to each other for many years. Finally, the wife filled out and filed a divorce petition. One week before the judge was to sign the divorce petition, the guy died. The only person in the hospital room with him was his estranged wife who was in the process of divorcing him...he still wanted to make it work.

Should he have told?

You are late to the game on this. It is already established that telling the truth can lead to undesirable consequences. It is an interesting example, though, regardless of how many stories people share of wives getting pissed at their husbands when they find out the husbands cheated. Big shocker that is.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

[YOUTUBE]sRmAyyvAcZY[/YOUTUBE]

This is a fake. It is against FCC rules to put someone on the radio without telling them they are on air beforehand. That is why none of the big national shows do these kind of bits anymore.

[Soccermom]

See, this is why I don't think the guy should turn over to the Bishop the decision about whether his wife should find out or not. He knows his wife better than the Bishop knows her. He knows that it could trigger a depression that could have a terrible impact on children. I recognize that I am less devout than most LDS people, but I don't understand why any intelligent adult would let a Bishop make that decision on his/her behalf. The Bishop could be Chris Buttars for all we know. People really think it's a good idea to roll the dice like that?

I agree that this has been an interesting thread. I like when things stay relatively civil.

I completely agree with you and would add that even if the husband thought it was best that the wife knew I have a hard time seeing how confessing to a bishop helps. Someone very close to me cheated and confessed to the bishop and somehow several people in the ward knew. The innocent spouse chose the path of forgiveness, but those who knew seemed to hold it against the cheater. Didn't really help the situation and the one cheated on was doubly hurt.

[tooblue]

A3c. Furthermore, the Bishop is required to hold the church's interests above that of the individual. In other words, the Bishop's counsel can not be trusted to reflect what is best for the couple if the Church has a competing interest at stake.

Do you willfully misread and or misrepresent, or do you or did you ever really know what the role of a Bishop in the church is?

A2.What is the church?