If you were in charge, how would YOU run a faith based university?

[Sullyute]

Where have you been? That was the most talked about story of 2001.

Sorry, I was working full time and going to school full time up at the U. And I wasn't spending any time on the BYU message boards (or any other message boards) at the time. So I guess I missed all of the fun.

So I assume that the ban on this illicit and immoral practice is still in place?

[SteelBlue]

There is no need for an honor code. The EE is sufficient to ensure that those attending the university are "worthy". Beyond that the HC is an embarrassment. I have wasted a good hour of my day today explaining to people that "no, drinking caffeine won't really get you kicked out of BYU" etc... I'm telling you, for every 1 non-lds observer that thinks this is a net positive, there are 9 who think we're even weirder than they'd imagined. Those numbers are cold, hard science by the way.

[Flystripper]

There is no need for an honor code. The EE is sufficient to ensure that those attending the university are "worthy". Beyond that the HC is an embarrassment. I have wasted a good hour of my day today explaining to people that "no, drinking caffeine won't really get you kicked out of BYU" etc... I'm telling you, for every 1 non-lds observer that thinks this is a net positive, there are 9 who think we're even weirder than they'd imagined. Those numbers are cold, hard science by the way.

I agree with this. every word...even the science.

[RC Vikings]

There is no need for an honor code. The EE is sufficient to ensure that those attending the university are "worthy". Beyond that the HC is an embarrassment. I have wasted a good hour of my day today explaining to people that "no, drinking caffeine won't really get you kicked out of BYU" etc... I'm telling you, for every 1 non-lds observer that thinks this is a net positive, there are 9 who think we're even weirder than they'd imagined. Those numbers are cold, hard science by the way.

Steel have you really thought this through. What if students started growing facial hair again?

[SeattleUte]

Don't tell Notre Dame.

Notre Dame is not a "faith based university".

[Moliere]

Steel have you really thought this through. What if students started growing facial hair again?

Or started wearing overalls at BYU-I?

[KillerDog]

I think the problem is a determination of the purpose of BYU (or a like school if there is any).

Is BYU an institution dedicated to the enforcement of LDS morality? I don't think that it is but many believe that the Honor Code is a necessary component of BYU because some enforcement of LDS morality is needed. I think BYU's purpose was/is to educate young people in an environment that promotes the teachings of the LDS Church. I don't see how the Honor Code is necessary for the promotion of those teachings. In fact, the act of kicking a kid out of school severly dampens the ability of the University to change the way that kid thinks. That does not promot the teachings of anything.

As a result, I think the Honor Code is unnecessary for BYU's mission. I think BYU's leadership lost track of their mission a long time ago. I hope they find it before my kids are college age. If they don't, I won't encourage them to go to BYU.

I believe there is an alternative to doing away with the Honor Code. Those components of the Honor Code which bear directly on the scholastic nature of the University can continue to be upheld by the Honor Code Office. All Honor Code issues based in either 1960s LDS culture and LDS morals should be dealt with through religious leadership. If you can't trust the bishops and stake presidents to make good decisions regarding the best interest of these young people, then you certainly can't trust the Honor Code Office in that regard. Although there is a risk of inconsistency, a true believer would believe that the inconsistency in enforcement was inspired by God. It is certainly more likely to be inspired in a Bishop/SP enforced Honor Code than in a HCO enforced Honor Code.

So, I recommend a rededication to the purpose of the University and a rejection of the Honor Code or a release of HC enforcement to ecclesiastical leaders.

Remember "Enter to Learn, Go Forth to Serve" cannot be accomplished if the students get kicked out without learning.

[byu71]

I think the problem is a determination of the purpose of BYU (or a like school if there is any).

Is BYU an institution dedicated to the enforcement of LDS morality? I don't think that it is but many believe that the Honor Code is a necessary component of BYU because some enforcement of LDS morality is needed. I think BYU's purpose was/is to educate young people in an environment that promotes the teachings of the LDS Church. I don't see how the Honor Code is necessary for the promotion of those teachings. In fact, the act of kicking a kid out of school severly dampens the ability of the University to change the way that kid thinks. That does not promot the teachings of anything.

As a result, I think the Honor Code is unnecessary for BYU's mission. I think BYU's leadership lost track of their mission a long time ago. I hope they find it before my kids are college age. If they don't, I won't encourage them to go to BYU.

I believe there is an alternative to doing away with the Honor Code. Those components of the Honor Code which bear directly on the scholastic nature of the University can continue to be upheld by the Honor Code Office. All Honor Code issues based in either 1960s LDS culture and LDS morals should be dealt with through religious leadership. If you can't trust the bishops and stake presidents to make good decisions regarding the best interest of these young people, then you certainly can't trust the Honor Code Office in that regard. Although there is a risk of inconsistency, a true believer would believe that the inconsistency in enforcement was inspired by God. It is certainly more likely to be inspired in a Bishop/SP enforced Honor Code than in a HCO enforced Honor Code.

So, I recommend a rededication to the purpose of the University and a rejection of the Honor Code or a release of HC enforcement to ecclesiastical leaders.

Remember "Enter to Learn, Go Forth to Serve" cannot be accomplished if the students get kicked out without learning.

The honor code was instituted by a very, very conservative man who watched Universities burn and students riot. He wanted control and to make sure that didn't happen where he was at.

He came up with the honor code, not sure that was it's first name. Now if you want to say God has ratified it by the brethern accepting it , OK. Of course like other things in church history I can hope he will unratify it.

Many parents send their kids there for the safety and in hopes officials can control their kids better than they can. I have a famous story about that from President Samuelsons own words. Sadly the irony probably went over his head in this instance.

Parents also send kids their in hopes they will marry within their own tribe. They fear without the strict rules and enforcement lawlessness will break out.

In other words they don't think the doctrine has been fully imprinted in their young yet.

[Surfah]

The honor code was instituted by a very, very conservative man who watched Universities burn and students riot. He wanted control and to make sure that didn't happen where he was at.

He came up with the honor code, not sure that was it's first name. Now if you want to say God has ratified it by the brethern accepting it , OK. Of course like other things in church history I can hope he will unratify it.

Many parents send their kids there for the safety and in hopes officials can control their kids better than they can. I have a famous story about that from President Samuelsons own words. Sadly the irony probably went over his head in this instance.

Parents also send kids their in hopes they will marry within their own tribe. They fear without the strict rules and enforcement lawlessness will break out.

In other words they don't think the doctrine has been fully imprinted in their young yet.

I thought the BYU Honor Code was created by students.

[pellegrino]

I thought the BYU Honor Code was created by students.

Yes, but Wilkinson hi-jacked it during the 60s.

[old_gregg]

If I were a student at BYU, I'd be organizing a protest in front of the HCO today. It's time for the student's to take matters into their own hands and shoot down the ecclesiastical authority that has been usurped by the HCO administrators.

i'm just transferring. most students i know are complete sheep and don't understand why the hc is problematic. so, i'll most likely be at utah or usc this next fall.

[SCcoug]

If you are interested here is a history of the honor code up to 1985.

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org...troduction.htm

[Flystripper]

i'm just transferring. most students i know are complete sheep and don't understand why the hc is problematic. so, i'll most likely be at utah or usc this next fall.

to be honest I don't blame you.

[DapperDan]

If you are interested here is a history of the honor code up to 1985.

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org...troduction.htm

Also https://dialoguejournal.com/wp-conte...V31N04_101.pdf

[byu71]

I thought the BYU Honor Code was created by students.

there is create and then there is institute. Create is light and feathery.

Instituted is heavy and is like a ton of bricks coming down on your head.