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If you were in charge, how would YOU run a faith based university?

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  • #1

    If you were in charge, how would YOU run a faith based university?

    This is a very slippery slope. How does one run a faith based university, based on keeping commandments, morality, etc.

    How does one enforce 'moral' principles, without coming off as judgemental, pharasiacal, and full blown mullahs?

    I am struggling with this, and don't know the answer. While I totally respect and love BYU's adherence to gospel principles, what is the best way to enforce a "spiritual law" or institution?

    How would YOU do it? The HC Office seems so "old testamenty"...so Talibanish. Yet, do you just fully turn over spiritual matters to bishops, ecclesiastical authorities of other churches (for non members) and let them deal with it? I think then, you run a very high risk of making a mockery out of the whole integrity thing of keeping the commandments and doing your best to live the gospel.

    Does BYU do it the best way possible? Is there an alternative way that they should consider and change and update their ways?

    Consequence and forgiveness. It's tough because there are examples illustrating both in the scriptures. The adultress: "Go and sin no more". The woman should have been stoned to death back then and died. The ultimate forgiveness...her very life. Yet consequences demanded something else. Where is the line drawn? Is there a line? Each case independent? How do you effectively do this for the masses of +30k people/students?
    Last edited by Borg; 03-02-2011, 08:57 AM.
    "Newton's First Law of Motion: ...things at rest tend to stay at rest. Things in motion, tend to stay in motion...."

    Hmm... Good motivation for me to remain active I guess.
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  • #2
    The main problem I see with turning it over to the bishops and getting rid of the HC office (which I would love to see happen!) is uniformity in the way similar situations are handled by different bishops. I can foresee two kids having sex with their girlfriends being treated in radically different ways, where one is admonished to repent but is kept in school where another has his EE yanked immediately and is forced to leave school. If you're BYU, I'm not sure how you can let that happen.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    Dig your own grave, and save!

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    "I know that you are one of the cool and 'edgy' BYU fans" -- Wally

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    • #3
      For BYU it's easy. If your bishop gives you clearance to be in school, God must want you to be in school. If God doesn't want you do be in school, he'll let the bishop know.

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by falafel View Post
        The main problem I see with turning it over to the bishops and getting rid of the HC office (which I would love to see happen!) is uniformity in the way similar situations are handled by different bishops. I can foresee two kids having sex with their girlfriends being treated in radically different ways, where one is admonished to repent but is kept in school where another has his EE yanked immediately and is forced to leave school. If you're BYU, I'm not sure how you can let that happen.
        How is this any different than the way the church works today? Bishops hand out different punishments for the same sin all the time. It would also be more confidential and a longer, more substantial process.
        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Eddie Jones View Post
          How is this any different than the way the church works today? Bishops hand out different punishments for the same sin all the time. It would also be more confidential and a longer, more substantial process.
          See that's kinda what I was thinking. It resembles A LOT like real life. You can have a mullah bishop/stake president, where the bordering bishop/SP is totally laid back etc.

          How would that approach not be consistent with the Church in general?
          "Newton's First Law of Motion: ...things at rest tend to stay at rest. Things in motion, tend to stay in motion...."

          Hmm... Good motivation for me to remain active I guess.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Eddie Jones View Post
            How is this any different than the way the church works today? Bishops hand out different punishments for the same sin all the time. It would also be more confidential and a longer, more substantial process.
            Yeah, aren't they pretty much the same in that they claim each incident is handled on a "case by case" basis. I've never heard that they claim uniformity.

            I would prefer there be no honor code office (or one that is greatly reduced) and everything simply handled through ecclesiastical endorsements.

            I do worry though that it would not look very Christian-like laying off all those HCO employees and greatly affecting their lives, through no fault of their own.

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            • #7
              Any punishment short of murder would not take effect until the end of season/next semester.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Borg View Post
                See that's kinda what I was thinking. It resembles A LOT like real life. You can have a mullah bishop/stake president, where the bordering bishop/SP is totally laid back etc.

                How would that approach not be consistent with the Church in general?
                And then we herd all of the atheletes into Bishop Wayne Owens' ward (or whoever his latter-day equivelent is).

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                • #9
                  The HC needs to deal with only academic issues/integrity like other universities. The threat of being kicked out of BYU for consensual sex needs to be eliminated. The HC should only address breaking the law (law of the land, not of the church) and academic honesty.

                  There is a lot that needs to change in LDS culture for this to occur and it needs to start with LDS members themselves. Just maybe making progressive changes with the HC at BYU will help LDS members and culture be less self-righteous and judgmental.

                  In short, BYU needs to quit trying to be each student’s parent. Every student is over 18, each is an adult.

                  In my days as a student, I witnessed a student stay enrolled after behavior (cheating) that would have gotten him kicked out of any other university. Yet a different student was kicked out of BYU for behavior (having sex) that would be OK at any other university. The HC at BYU is messed up and needs to be fixed.
                  “Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory.”
                  "All things are measured against Nebraska." falafel

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                  • #10
                    While at Ricks we knew of a bishop where anything goes. A lot of my buddies went to his summer ward and got everything cleared up. They could find a bishop like that and put all the athletes in that ward.

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                    • #11
                      If I were a student at BYU, I'd be organizing a protest in front of the HCO today. It's time for the student's to take matters into their own hands and shoot down the ecclesiastical authority that has been usurped by the HCO administrators.
                      "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RC Vikings View Post
                        While at Ricks we knew of a bishop where anything goes. A lot of my buddies went to his summer ward and got everything cleared up. They could find a bishop like that and put all the athletes in that ward.
                        That would work great. If God did not like what the bishop was doing I'm sure he would find another calling for him to fill.

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                        • #13
                          I think as it is now the school would be better served with doing away with the HC office and leaving that decision in the hands of Bishops in the form of not renewing an EE endorsement. That way it would cut out the snitching aspect of it and the student/athlete could finish out the year and at least have time to make other arrangements. For those concerned with image it would avoid having the story all over the national media and the university spokesperson commenting on it.

                          If we are overhauling the whole system you need to start with deciding if worthiness should be a prerequisite for being a student at BYU and if so where the bar should be set.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by falafel View Post
                            The main problem I see with turning it over to the bishops and getting rid of the HC office (which I would love to see happen!) is uniformity in the way similar situations are handled by different bishops. I can foresee two kids having sex with their girlfriends being treated in radically different ways, where one is admonished to repent but is kept in school where another has his EE yanked immediately and is forced to leave school. If you're BYU, I'm not sure how you can let that happen.
                            This happens ALL the time in the membership of the Church. Why should it be any different at BYU?

                            What does it have to do with school and sports?

                            Let bishops decide who gets an ecclesiastical endorsement or not.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Shaka View Post
                              Any punishment short of murder would not take effect until the end of season/next semester.
                              I don't agree with that. That simply isn't the case at other schools.

                              You do certain things, you are suspended/expelled immediately.

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