Oaks on religious freedom

[Jeff Lebowski]

The tribunal was set up after similar hate legislation was written into law in Canada.

Have any churches in Canada been forced to modify their doctrine and/or activities as a result of this legislation?

[tooblue]

So is it ok to have dire straights "money for nothing" on my iPhone? I go to Canada every May for a conference and would like to return to Texas (with my iPhone).

You're good — just don't broadcast the song on public radio.

[Borderline Divine]

Any LDS leader lecturing on religious freedom is nothing but ironic.

[tooblue]

Have any churches in Canada been forced to modify their doctrine and/or activities as a result of this legislation?

If, in a talk given in sacrament meeting on Sunday, I condemned homosexuality, any person in the room, offended by my words could file a complaint and I could be censured and potentially fined thousands of dollars by the human rights tribunal.

[tooblue]

And of course you realize that makes yours and Vikings words Uber-ironic

[Jeff Lebowski]

If, in a talk given in sacrament meeting on Sunday, I condemned homosexuality, any person in the room, offended by my words could file a complaint and I could be censured and potentially fined thousands of dollars by the human rights tribunal.

If that were true, and given the church's aversion to lawsuits and our anxiousness to "obey the law of the land", I am sure there is some letter from SLC instructing Canadian saints to avoid saying anything negative about homosexuality at church. Would you mind posting a copy of the letter for us?

[RobinFinderson]

You are trolling or woefully naive. I say trolling

I'm not trolling, and Lebowski agrees with me that the hate speech legislation doesn't seem to have anything to do with what Oaks is talking about.

[tooblue]

If that were true, and given the church's aversion to lawsuits and our anxiousness to "obey the law of the land", I am sure there is some letter from SLC instructing Canadian saints to avoid saying anything negative about homosexuality at church. Would you mind posting a copy of the letter for us?

You now seem bent on diverting the discussion and changing the argument. I already gave you sufficient proof that what Oaks is warning against is beginning to happen in other countries, therefore his concerns are valid, based upon evidence and sound logic. I'm not going to get into a fight but your criticism of Oaks is silly. You can't prove otherwise.

[byu71]

Any LDS leader lecturing on religious freedom is nothing but ironic.

Not sure I understand your point. Do LDS leaders promote a "state" religion.
Have they ever stated anyone should be forced to accept a specific religious belief.

I don't think religious freedom means you can't disagree with the beliefs of someone else.

[tooblue]

I'm not trolling, and Lebowski agrees with me that the hate speech legislation doesn't seem to have anything to do with what Oaks is talking about.

Similar hate speech legislation in Canada lead to the creation of the human rights tribunal in Canada. The same thing by different means will happen in the USA.

A number of years ago on a different message board I argued that because gay marriage was legalized in Canada it would not be long before gay marriage was legalized in the US, at least in certain states. The exact same arguments you and jeff are using now were used then. I was correct, those individuals who used your arguments were not.

[Solon]

Similar hate speech legislation in Canada lead to the creation of the human rights tribunal in Canada. The same thing by different means will happen in the USA.

A number of years ago on a different message board I argued that because gay marriage was legalized in Canada it would not be long before gay marriage was legalized in the US, at least in certain states. The exact same arguments you and jeff are using now were used then. I was correct, those individuals who used your arguments were not.

I'm glad you're contributing here, tooblue, even if people might attack you as the messenger. It's interesting to think of getting fined for what you say in church. Has this actually happened? The Quebec story is interesting, but that incident was in the context of a heated argument.

"Human Rights Tribunal" is a really ominous name.

[RobinFinderson]

Similar hate speech legislation in Canada lead to the creation of the human rights tribunal in Canada. The same thing by different means will happen in the USA.

A number of years ago on a different message board I argued that because gay marriage was legalized in Canada it would not be long before gay marriage was legalized in the US, at least in certain states. The exact same arguments you and jeff are using now were used then. I was correct, those individuals who used your arguments were not.

Outside of the US, and especially in Canada, I will gladly acquiesce to your expert point of view, but here in the US, Hate SPEECH and Hate CRIME are still apples and oranges, and there is no trend suggesting that the distinction will ever change. Hate speech, in the US, will always be protected.

[Viking]

Not sure I understand your point. Do LDS leaders promote a "state" religion.
Have they ever stated anyone should be forced to accept a specific religious belief.

I don't think religious freedom means you can't disagree with the beliefs of someone else.

Of course I don't believe in the devil, nor in the LDS pre-existence fable, but if it were to be true, lucifer's plan would be more proximate to the way i think the post-correlation mormon theocracy operates.

[tooblue]

I'm glad you're contributing here, tooblue, even if people might attack you as the messenger. It's interesting to think of getting fined for what you say in church. Has this actually happened? The Quebec story is interesting, but that incident was in the context of a heated argument.

"Human Rights Tribunal" is a really ominous name.

It is a matter of time before someone is fined for what he/she says in church. We are not the only religion that is concerned about this. I know personally that muslim leaders are being targeted right now but that's supposedly popular these days due to the threat of terrorism so no one speaks out against it.

Below is an interesting article on the subject as it relates to religious education:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...n/pch0080.html

Then there's my case. On May 9th of 2002 I was convicted of conduct unbecoming a member of the BC College of Teachers. The reason was because I expressed my opinion in my local newspaper. Between April 1997 and July, 2000, I wrote one freelance column and six letters to the editor of my town's newspaper, which questioned the wisdom of promoting the homosexual agenda. I provided factual information on rates of promiscuity and disease infection which had been previously published in scholarly journals.

[byu71]

Of course I don't believe in the devil, nor in the LDS pre-existence fable, but if it were to be true, lucifer's plan would be more proximate to the way i think the post-correlation mormon theocracy operates.

I do think the LDS church, culture, religion, has a lot more rules and punishments than most other religious or non-religious people have. However the element of "force" is missing that was part of Satan's plan. Coercion (sp) maybe, but not force.