Obedience to Counsel

[FMCoug]

Isn't this an oxymoron? By its very definition, counsel is not something to be "obedient" too. It is counsel, advice, suggestion, etc. which you then apply to your inidividual circumstances and apply as you best see fit.

Based on that, there are precious few "commandments" that you have to be "obedient" too. The 10 Commandments, covenants made in the temple, etc. In my mind, if you are temple-worthy, that is all you have to be "obedient" too.

But it seems that Mormon culture has twisted this on its head, resulting in a judgmental culture. Even worse, the things being judged are generally counsel, not commandment.

Not that it would be right either, but if Mormons spent their time judging others on adultery and word of wisdom issues (commandments) rather thatn the movies they watch, how they dress, whether they have FHE (or have it the right way), etc. we'd be a lot better off.

[The_Tick]

In TK1's religion class at BYU last week the teacher (Religious departmen head) put the following on the overhead (I am going from memory)

"Once you are married, you shouldn't put off having a family."

He then said..."This isn't doctrine. This is council. That means advice. That means that you don't have to be in a hurry to have children."

Then he opened the floor for debate. And there was a grand debate.

He likes to put something controversial on the board at the beginning of each class.

[FMCoug]

In TK1's religion class at BYU last week the teacher (Religious departmen head) put the following on the overhead (I am going from memory)

"Once you are married, you shouldn't put off having a family."

He then said..."This isn't doctrine. This is council. That means advice. That means that you don't have to be in a hurry to have children."

Then he opened the floor for debate. And there was a grand debate.

He likes to put something controversial on the board at the beginning of each class.

That is good to hear. Too bad you couldn't do the same thing teaching 16 year old Sunday School in most wards.

[Jacob]

That is good to hear. Too bad you couldn't do the same thing teaching 16 year old Sunday School in most wards.

Why couldn't you? I teach SS to 16 year olds and I do what I please.

[The_Tick]

Why couldn't you? I teach SS to 16 year olds and I do what I please.

We did this the past two weeks and it came out great.

In relation to Mary and Joseph...Mary comes up pregnant and claims to have not had sex.

So we asked the girls "What do you think your fiance, parents and friends would think about it?"

Then we asked the boys "How would you handle it if this happened to you? Before the heavenly visit and all..."

We asked them to discuss it with their parents.

None of it was covered in the book. And it was 2 of the better lessons we have had.

[byu71]

Isn't this an oxymoron? By its very definition, counsel is not something to be "obedient" too. It is counsel, advice, suggestion, etc. which you then apply to your inidividual circumstances and apply as you best see fit.

Based on that, there are precious few "commandments" that you have to be "obedient" too. The 10 Commandments, covenants made in the temple, etc. In my mind, if you are temple-worthy, that is all you have to be "obedient" too.

But it seems that Mormon culture has twisted this on its head, resulting in a judgmental culture. Even worse, the things being judged are generally counsel, not commandment.

Not that it would be right either, but if Mormons spent their time judging others on adultery and word of wisdom issues (commandments) rather thatn the movies they watch, how they dress, whether they have FHE (or have it the right way), etc. we'd be a lot better off.

There are many who don't think counsel is "counsel". If it comes from one of the brethern, it is commandment. They don't seem to have any problem with the commandment being changed later.

I dare say half of those on CB would consider the admonition to serve a mission as a commandment, not counsel.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Not that it would be right either, but if Mormons spent their time judging others on adultery and word of wisdom issues (commandments) rather thatn the movies they watch, how they dress, whether they have FHE (or have it the right way), etc. we'd be a lot better off.

Speaking of twisting something on its head...

[Paperback Writer]

I don't know how much is judgment by others or how much is an attempt to make one feel guilty over not following all the council being directed to the typically LDS family.

Lately, my stake has gone into overdrive on council.

• Not just regular scripture study but reading the BOM by the next stake conference
• family prayer not just once a day but twice
• not only regular FHE but to have familiy members testify of JC during each FHE
• increased temple attendance (surprised there's no quota on that-must be something in the CHOI against it)
• write down individual names and pray for them to prepare them for missionary lessons in your home.

And we keep hearing our ward leaders "testify" of these goals and share their families progress, etc. Instead of building excitiment, it has really turned me off. It's coming over like one big guilt trip because we don't have the time to really do it all.

I think privately some will admit to not avidly supporting all of this council but not publically. Here's reality:

• As a family we're stuck in 2nd Nehpi with no hope of completing the BOM by next stake conference. I'm pleased my seminary kids are keeping up on D&C reading though. On a good week, we read scriptures as a family on Sunday if I don't have to go home teaching or have other meetings that take up all available time after chuch block of meetings.
• I'm not waking up the rest of the family at 5:30 AM just to have family prayer before some of my kids go to seminary. It's bad enough I have to get up and drive them and it's a major breakthough that my seminary kids are getting up on their own. Evening prayer is working a little better.
• FHE was spent helping with a 6th grade science project, quizzing another child on state capitols, and tutoring another on physics. Did not get around to testifying of JC but I came close to saying that under my breath because the child "forgot" about the science project over the weekend
• temple attendence is on the to-do list. But there's too many more pressing things ahead of it - most of which are church related. Boy Scouts and YM will have taken up every Saturday in January.
• I have not been tortured enough to name names. Besides, my Baptist neighbors are praying for my family and they have much nicer church facilities, a better Boy Scout troop, a paid Youth minister, and don't tithe.

[Jacob]

One of our EQ goals for 2011 revealed on Sunday was to study scriptures 3 times per day (individual, family, couple). Good luck with that.

[KillerDog]

One of our EQ goals for 2011 revealed on Sunday was to study scriptures 3 times per day (individual, family, couple). Good luck with that.

LOL! That's hilarious.

[Jeff Lebowski]

One of our EQ goals for 2011 revealed on Sunday was to study scriptures 3 times per day (individual, family, couple). Good luck with that.

Yikes.

A surprising number of mormons seem to think that God grades on a curve.

[byu71]

LOL! That's hilarious.

In a couple of my buddies marriages, that will be one more item of conflict in the home. With these guys, if the counsel gets to the wife, they are in for a battle.

[Paperback Writer]

Yikes.

A surprising number of mormons seem to think that God grades on a curve.

And takes attendance; lest you not be written in the Book of Life.

[LA Ute]

Paraphrasing Hugh Nibley: Too many of us would rather get up at 5:00 a.m. to write a bad book than get up at 9:00 to write a good one.

[FMCoug]

Speaking of twisting something on its head...

No disagreement here. Just mentioned a couple of thigns that actually are commandments (i.e. will keep you out of the temple).