Obedience to Counsel

[smokymountainrain]

One of our EQ goals for 2011 revealed on Sunday was to study scriptures 3 times per day (individual, family, couple). Good luck with that.

I/we do that. No biggie - it's easy and I feel like it helps me/my family. That said, goals should be at least somewhat realistic and that one most definitely isn't.

[FMCoug]

I/we do that. No biggie - it's easy and I feel like it helps me/my family. That said, goals should be at least somewhat realistic and that one most definitely isn't.

So here is a rebellious question. What the hell is the EQ doing setting goals for you and your family? Suggestions? Sure. We'd like to do this as a quorum and you're welcome to participate. Great. Here is what we are all going to do. Not so great.

[Uncle Ted]

I don't know how much is judgment by others or how much is an attempt to make one feel guilty over not following all the council being directed to the typically LDS family.

Lately, my stake has gone into overdrive on council.

• Not just regular scripture study but reading the BOM by the next stake conference
• family prayer not just once a day but twice
• not only regular FHE but to have familiy members testify of JC during each FHE
• increased temple attendance (surprised there's no quota on that-must be something in the CHOI against it)
• write down individual names and pray for them to prepare them for missionary lessons in your home.

And we keep hearing our ward leaders "testify" of these goals and share their families progress, etc. Instead of building excitiment, it has really turned me off. It's coming over like one big guilt trip because we don't have the time to really do it all.

I think privately some will admit to not avidly supporting all of this council but not publically. Here's reality:

• As a family we're stuck in 2nd Nehpi with no hope of completing the BOM by next stake conference. I'm pleased my seminary kids are keeping up on D&C reading though. On a good week, we read scriptures as a family on Sunday if I don't have to go home teaching or have other meetings that take up all available time after chuch block of meetings.
• I'm not waking up the rest of the family at 5:30 AM just to have family prayer before some of my kids go to seminary. It's bad enough I have to get up and drive them and it's a major breakthough that my seminary kids are getting up on their own. Evening prayer is working a little better.
• FHE was spent helping with a 6th grade science project, quizzing another child on state capitols, and tutoring another on physics. Did not get around to testifying of JC but I came close to saying that under my breath because the child "forgot" about the science project over the weekend
• temple attendence is on the to-do list. But there's too many more pressing things ahead of it - most of which are church related. Boy Scouts and YM will have taken up every Saturday in January.
• I have not been tortured enough to name names. Besides, my Baptist neighbors are praying for my family and they have much nicer church facilities, a better Boy Scout troop, a paid Youth minister, and don't tithe.

(HeHe... I remember when our stakes were one and the same. The stake president hasn't changed, has he?)

Yes, the morning and night family prayer is a tough one given 5:30am seminary. I figure if they are praying in seminary then that counts for something.

As for temple attendance I count the trips I make with the youth. If my wife and I make it that is a bonus. It is not like the temple is 15 minutes away even without traffic.

It is OK to skip 2nd Nephi when reading the BoM as a family, IMHO. Get to the good stuff like the battles and heads getting cut off.

My baptist friends tell me that they are always praying for us too. They tell me if they pray hard enough for us there might be a chance we will be spared from hell. So I guess we have that going for us.

[myboynoah]

• As a family we're stuck in 2nd Nehpi with no hope of completing the BOM by next stake conference. I'm pleased my seminary kids are keeping up on D&C reading though. On a good week, we read scriptures as a family on Sunday if I don't have to go home teaching or have other meetings that take up all available time after chuch block of meetings.

We just busted through 2nd Nephi. I proposed and we all committed to reading at least three chapters a night when we got to the Isaiah part. We almost lost Noah on several occasions, but we made through as a family intact.

[snowcat]

I/we do that. No biggie - it's easy and I feel like it helps me/my family. That said, goals should be at least somewhat realistic and that one most definitely isn't.

You are an impressive member.

[smokymountainrain]

So here is a rebellious question. What the hell is the EQ doing setting goals for you and your family? Suggestions? Sure. We'd like to do this as a quorum and you're welcome to participate. Great. Here is what we are all going to do. Not so great.

You're preaching to choir. Jacob's EQ seems just a little messed up (although I'll give the benefit of the doubt that their intentions are good) based on a couple of his stories.

I'm not in Jacob's ward and nobody set that goal for us - not even us, really. We just do it because it's takes little effort and it works for us.

[Moliere]

So here is a rebellious question. What the hell is the EQ doing setting goals for you and your family? Suggestions? Sure. We'd like to do this as a quorum and you're welcome to participate. Great. Here is what we are all going to do. Not so great.

Yeah, seems like they are going outside of the Priesthood authority tree by telling your wife and kids what they should/shouldn't be doing. Now if they want to help the Elder's set personal goals that seems reasonable. I wonder what would happen if the RS Pres told the women of the ward that they need those same goals listed in the first post. I bet there would be an uprising.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Isn't this an oxymoron? By its very definition, counsel is not something to be "obedient" too. It is counsel, advice, suggestion, etc. which you then apply to your inidividual circumstances and apply as you best see fit.

Based on that, there are precious few "commandments" that you have to be "obedient" too. The 10 Commandments, covenants made in the temple, etc. In my mind, if you are temple-worthy, that is all you have to be "obedient" too.

But it seems that Mormon culture has twisted this on its head, resulting in a judgmental culture. Even worse, the things being judged are generally counsel, not commandment.

Not that it would be right either, but if Mormons spent their time judging others on adultery and word of wisdom issues (commandments) rather thatn the movies they watch, how they dress, whether they have FHE (or have it the right way), etc. we'd be a lot better off.

I agree with your sentiment.

[Eddie]

Isn't this an oxymoron? By its very definition, counsel is not something to be "obedient" too. It is counsel, advice, suggestion, etc. which you then apply to your inidividual circumstances and apply as you best see fit.

Based on that, there are precious few "commandments" that you have to be "obedient" too. The 10 Commandments, covenants made in the temple, etc. In my mind, if you are temple-worthy, that is all you have to be "obedient" too.

But it seems that Mormon culture has twisted this on its head, resulting in a judgmental culture. Even worse, the things being judged are generally counsel, not commandment.

Not that it would be right either, but if Mormons spent their time judging others on adultery and word of wisdom issues (commandments) rather thatn the movies they watch, how they dress, whether they have FHE (or have it the right way), etc. we'd be a lot better off.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in my mind there is a difference between being obedient to counsel, and following counsel.

I tend to agree with you that counsel is not commandment. But it is sage advice that a person/family will typically benefit from. So I don't necessarily think it should be dismissed lightly. (Of course, much of this depends on who the counsel is coming from...)

Sometimes I think good counsel is ignored - not because the person hearing it doesn't think it is good, but because they have a little rebelious streak in them, or they think it is no one's business, or they always view their circumstances as the exception, or it isn't in the scriptures and Jesus didn't say it, or ... any number of other reasons.

Sometimes I think people "kick against the pricks" just because.

Anyway - I guess I'm saying that mostly I agree with you. But I'm also saying that just because it isn't a commandment doesn't mean counsel shouldn't be thoughfully considered and applied by each individual.

[FMCoug]

thoughfully considered and applied by each individual.

To me this is the key. Thoughtfully considered.

[creekster]

Everytime I see this thread title I think about my favorite clients.

[RC Vikings]

Not that it would be right either, but if Mormons spent their time judging others on adultery and word of wisdom issues (commandments) rather thatn the movies they watch, how they dress, whether they have FHE (or have it the right way), etc. we'd be a lot better off.

It may be time to move all of the WOW into the counsel area and not just about eating meat.

[Paperback Writer]

(HeHe... I remember when our stakes were one and the same. The stake president hasn't changed, has he?)

Same guy but his tenure has got to be coming up. I just tell myself he means well and for every ingrate like me there's undoubtedly someone being helped by his counsel. And probably sometime down the road I'll wish I forced my family to read the BOM...again...as if 2 years ago didn't count. I just like the previous SP better who is the father of your SP.

[Jacob]

You're preaching to choir. Jacob's EQ seems just a little messed up (although I'll give the benefit of the doubt that their intentions are good) based on a couple of his stories.

I'm not in Jacob's ward and nobody set that goal for us - not even us, really. We just do it because it's takes little effort and it works for us.

I'm certain that intentions are good. But the delivery sucks. In the group meeting, it was pretty much a group PPI. The leader kept asking each individual how they were doing with each "goal."

Are you praying daily?
With your spouse?
How often are you attending the temple?
etc.

It was highly inappropriate, and he wasn't getting much response and thankfully ended the whole thing just as I was about to tell him that if we want a confession, he can know that I'm not doing any of those things he's asking about very well, though it's really none of his business as my "district leader" whose job it is to gather home teaching numbers every month.

But I'm not offended. Just annoyed. I'm hoping I they don't ask me to attend another PPI soon as I figure we already got that out of the way.

[LA Ute]

Everytime I see this thread title I think about my favorite clients.

Same here. Generallly mine are not obedient.