Things that make you believe in a God

[woot]

Sounds like you're shitting on the thread then.

Perhaps I give the believers more credit. Most of this thread is based in simple observations and a choice to have one's faith strengthened thereby. Sure, the implication is that such things couldn't have happened naturally, but most don't go that far. If someone talks about hearing the song of a bird or looking at the blue, blue sky as strengthening their faith I do not have anything to say about that.

[UtahDan]

I haven't read the books he refers to, but my guess is that the argument is something like the inevtiabiulity only arises because the process of evolution on this planet follows certain patterns which, when presented with the pressures that our environment repeatedly and consistently affords, will lead to Adam, so to speak. It is an interesting position, and perhaps I should read it before popping off any more.

It is not one that I have heard before nor one that I think has been discussed on this site. I think that is part of what has prompted the discussion and thread jack. I think it has remained mostly respectful. It might have been better form for someone to get that discussion into a thread of its own, but I don't think that is anyone's fault in particular.

Jackrabbit seems to be an intelligent fellow and is holding his own (I know you are not suggesting otherwise). This is the age old issue we have here that lots of people here like debate and others wish that there could be at least some threads that aren't debates. I'm just glad there has been very little poo thrown.

[Indy Coug]

Perhaps I give the believers more credit. Most of this thread is based in simple observations and a choice to have one's faith strengthened thereby. Sure, the implication is that such things couldn't have happened naturally, but most don't go that far. If someone talks about hearing the song of a bird or looking at the blue, blue sky as strengthening their faith I do not have anything to say about that.

That's a mighty thin line you're performing that dance on.

[woot]

That's a mighty thin line you're performing that dance on.

Well, if you'd like me to remind you that faith is a cop-out and that in reality there is no good reason for anything to strengthen your faith, or to have faith to begin with, I'm willing to oblige.

I don't think it's a very fine line though. I see a big different between "The beauty of nature helps me believe in god" and "I believe because science says it couldn't have happened by chance."

[Indy Coug]

Well, if you'd like me to remind you that faith is a cop-out and that in reality there is no good reason for anything to strengthen your faith, or to have faith to begin with, I'm willing to oblige.

I don't think it's a very fine line though. I see a big different between "The beauty of nature helps me believe in god" and "I believe because science says it couldn't have happened by chance."

Actually, I was just calling bullshit regarding your alleged reticence to shit on others' professions of faith.

[UtahDan]

Actually, I was just calling bullshit regarding your alleged reticence to shit on others' professions of faith.

I think this is an odd way for people to view this discussion. Do you view sharing the message of the restoration as shitting on traditional Christianity?

[creekster]

Well, I am certianly glad I could focus this discussion.

Ooops.

[Indy Coug]

I think this is an odd way for people to view this discussion. Do you view sharing the message of the restoration as shitting on traditional Christianity?

Well, if you'd like me to remind you that faith is a cop-out and that in reality there is no good reason for anything to strengthen your faith, or to have faith to begin with, I'm willing to oblige.

Woot made my point for me.

[LA Ute]

Woot made my point for me.

Yes, he "reminded" you of some absolute truths he knows.

[woot]

Actually, I was just calling bullshit regarding your alleged reticence to shit on others' professions of faith.

That's not surprising, since I know you don't value evidence. If you did, you would find that I tend not to enter faithful threads unless they contain erroneous scientific claims. Most don't, so I enter very few.

[woot]

Yes, he "reminded" you of some absolute truths he knows.

I wouldn't use the term "absolute," but unless you know something I don't, there still isn't any scientific reason to believe in god. Please enlighten me.

[UtahDan]

I'm going to retract my request to move the discussion. The original post invites a discussion of evidence and that is exactly what is happening.

[LA Ute]

I'm going to retract my request to move the discussion. The original post invites a discussion of evidence and that is exactly what is happening.

Borg asked:

Setting aside "spiritual" things....is there one thing that stands out to you to logically tell you that there is a God?

When I consider, for example, that the Earth's moon is in exactly the position it needs to be in order to regulate the ocean tides the way it does, that strikes me as evidence of a creator. Based on the entire body of knowledge and experience available to me, that's a logical conclusion. I recognize that others see that astrophysical fact differently. There's nothing ridiculous about either interpretation of that fact. The failure to tolerate different approaches to faith and reason is the weakness in this thread I am noting.

[Blueintheface]

Borg asked:



When I consider, for example, that the Earth's moon is in exactly the position it needs to be in order to regulate the ocean tides the way it does, that strikes me as evidence of a creator. Based on the entire body of knowledge and experience available to me, that's a logical conclusion. I recognize that others see that astrophysical fact differently. There's nothing ridiculous about either interpretation of that fact. The failure to tolerate different approaches to faith and reason is the weakness in this thread I am noting.

I unfortunately have to listen to a recently "baptized" atheist and former member of my stake "preach" to me daily at work about the astrophysical evidence for just these types of celestial occurences. He mixes in enough discussion about sports to remain in a vertical position but it's all in an effort to indoctrinate me and other less fortunate LDS members in the office.

I too would cite this and 11teenmillion other things as physical evidence of a creator.

[tooblue]

I wouldn't use the term "absolute," but unless you know something I don't, there still isn't any scientific reason to believe in god. Please enlighten me.

I have all the evidence I need to have "reason" to believe and have faith in God. In fact it could be argued that such knowledge enables me to state honestly and in all sincerity that I "know" there is a God.

If my "evidence" is insufficient for others then it is insufficient for others but it does not mean that I am less rational, less educated or less logical than others. It may mean I am different. Or, it may simply mean I have made different choices.

The truths of science are no more absolute than my truths. By and large woot has been as respectful as most others in this thread, he has even entertained, by response, one of my ruminations about love. His method of determining evidence is different. He has made different choices. As such, and to bring this thread full circle, woot is one thing that makes me believe in God!